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Re: Best state of tune?
[Re: ]
#1534314
18/04/2015 16:12
18/04/2015 16:12
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fiatphil
Unregistered
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fiatphil
Unregistered
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I think I may well have found the best state of tune then Nigel. Nice result on the rollers today.
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Re: Best state of tune?
[Re: Gunzi]
#1534319
18/04/2015 17:56
18/04/2015 17:56
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fiatphil
Unregistered
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fiatphil
Unregistered
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What are your mods Phil and how'd you get on with the Fleamap? FMIC K&N panel filter Power flow cat back Fuel pump wiring mod Think that's it. Very pleased with results after mapping. Think Flea said 278 is the highest he's seen on standard tb28 set up. Have a guess what mine made?
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Re: Best state of tune?
[Re: ]
#1534332
18/04/2015 19:13
18/04/2015 19:13
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,095 highlands
jimboy
Club Member 857
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Club Member 857
Forum is my life
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,095
highlands
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I'm certainly going to throw a spanner in the works here.
Big horse power does not equal better state of tune. Torque however is the one you want relevant to the car. I've seen/heard high horses in a car coughing & spluttering just not set up properly for a road going car. As said a standard car with a fresh suspension & good brakes will be a far better experience than something maxed to hell.
I'm an old git & happy with it,most of the time
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Re: Best state of tune?
[Re: ]
#1534340
18/04/2015 20:25
18/04/2015 20:25
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fiatphil
Unregistered
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fiatphil
Unregistered
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Bit more
Last edited by fiatphil; 18/04/2015 20:25.
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Re: Best state of tune?
[Re: Countrycruising]
#1534345
18/04/2015 20:45
18/04/2015 20:45
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,095 highlands
jimboy
Club Member 857
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Club Member 857
Forum is my life
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,095
highlands
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I'm certainly going to throw a spanner in the works here.
Big horse power does not equal better state of tune. Torque however is the one you want relevant to the car. I've seen/heard high horses in a car coughing & spluttering just not set up properly for a road going car. As said a standard car with a fresh suspension & good brakes will be a far better experience than something maxed to hell. Totally agree, torque is King & there we have it. Realistically any mechanic worth their job knows this along with any tuner. Before even I was aware of performance associated with vehicles.....
I'm an old git & happy with it,most of the time
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Re: Best state of tune?
[Re: Gunzi]
#1534346
18/04/2015 20:47
18/04/2015 20:47
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fiatphil
Unregistered
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fiatphil
Unregistered
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I'll go for 285, and that's basically the same spec as mine bar an Apexi cone. Bit more
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Re: Best state of tune?
[Re: dw89]
#1534349
18/04/2015 21:12
18/04/2015 21:12
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,726 London
kj16v
My life on the forum
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My life on the forum
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,726
London
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The difference between 200-odd and 400-odd bhp can only be experienced. Not only the speed, but the way it accelerates at various points in the rpm range. Very different beasts. Basically, you'll think your car is fast - until you've you've experienced 400+ bhp done properly! Not compromised by holding back torque in order to protect stock pistons, or anything like that. You're very close to me in Uxbridge. Why not pop over and I'll take you for a spin in mine Thanks kj,I might take you up on that offer. No problem Give me a ring when you want to pop round: 07900 324331 BTW, I just today finished mapping mine for its new Cat cams, and now it's making even more touquey horsepowerey goodness!
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Re: Best state of tune?
[Re: lenzoferrari]
#1534356
18/04/2015 21:39
18/04/2015 21:39
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,726 London
kj16v
My life on the forum
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My life on the forum
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,726
London
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It doesn't really matter on torque on the 20v turbo you don't get massive torque gains from the 20v turbo even when your in the 500 bhp club.
You don't need to worry about the piston letting go more on the rods because the torque bends them but saying that I'm running around 350 torque and over 400 bhp on standard rods and piston it's been a couple of years now and still fine .
So you can do it the cheaper way without forged rods and piston But get flea to map it . Torque ALWAYS matters! Afterall, it's torque that moves your car, not horsepower. HP is an important measurement but at the end of the day it's still just a function of torque. On a track with long straights, having a lot of hp over torque can be useful. But on the street you could very well find that your 20VT with 350 lbft & 400 bhp doesn't accelerate any quicker than another 20VT with 350 lbft and, say, 370 bhp. In fact you could even find that it gets beaten! It totally depends on where all that torque is made and how it's spread across the RPM range. As they say; it's all bout area under the curve! Too much fixation on peak bhp figures on this forum! This kinda goes back to what I mentioned previously: If practically all the cars on this forum have exactly the same mods from exactly the same manufactures, running maps from exactly the same place, how do you know that your Coupe's performance is the best that can be had from a Coupe? Personally when I see Coupes on here with all hp and low lb, I just see Coupes that haven't reached their full potential. As Countrycruising and Jimboy said: "Torque is king!"
Last edited by kj16v; 18/04/2015 21:47.
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Re: Best state of tune?
[Re: kj16v]
#1534357
18/04/2015 21:58
18/04/2015 21:58
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,095 highlands
jimboy
Club Member 857
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Club Member 857
Forum is my life
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,095
highlands
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Of course torque matters, Kj16v tells it as it is. I totally agree with too much involvement with HP when torque was king far long ago even when I was around. After the second world war the Yanks were putting their knowledge into beefing up cars to race, go fast....hot rodding. This was the infancy of modding as we know it today. Nothing to do with my thoughts, facts.
I'm an old git & happy with it,most of the time
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Re: Best state of tune?
[Re: DLT]
#1534394
19/04/2015 10:38
19/04/2015 10:38
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fiatphil
Unregistered
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fiatphil
Unregistered
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Sorry Phil - More importantly, what were your results? No apologies needed, its a good discussion. It made 292bhp and 291ft/lbs iirc. Not bad for a tb28 on a warm Combe afternoon. Think I'll put the hybrid on ice for now.
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Re: Best state of tune?
[Re: ]
#1534422
19/04/2015 13:52
19/04/2015 13:52
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 268 berkshire england
liam_gill
Making a profit
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Making a profit
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 268
berkshire england
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my spare knackered turbo turned into a hybrid for £650, large front mount intercooler kit off a coupe being broken £75 decat £35 scorpian cat back system ( on the car already) live map and rolling road £350ish porto coupe £300 off a forum member result 297 bhp torque 297ish so for just under 1500 i have a coupe that i have done 7 track days with and still not blown up! i would have to say 300bhp is the magic number and i can get all the power down in second gear upwards
Last edited by liam_gill; 19/04/2015 13:54.
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Re: Best state of tune?
[Re: H_R]
#1534426
19/04/2015 14:17
19/04/2015 14:17
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fiatphil
Unregistered
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fiatphil
Unregistered
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Great results Phil Cheers. Been having "much fun" in it this morning.
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Re: Best state of tune?
[Re: ]
#1534459
19/04/2015 18:12
19/04/2015 18:12
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go_fast_Chris
Unregistered
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go_fast_Chris
Unregistered
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glad you enjoing your car.... are you planning any further mods on it i wonder ?
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Re: Best state of tune?
[Re: ]
#1534462
19/04/2015 18:33
19/04/2015 18:33
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fiatphil
Unregistered
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fiatphil
Unregistered
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glad you enjoing your car.... are you planning any further mods on it i wonder ?
Not just yet but I never say never.
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Re: Best state of tune?
[Re: ]
#1534540
20/04/2015 09:52
20/04/2015 09:52
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fiatphil
Unregistered
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fiatphil
Unregistered
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And here is the dyno run.
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Re: Best state of tune?
[Re: ]
#1534615
20/04/2015 17:17
20/04/2015 17:17
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,650 Dark side of the Moon
H_R
My life on the forum
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My life on the forum
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,650
Dark side of the Moon
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Looking good! What boost setting did you settle for? Glad its been worth while! its definitely a buzz when you get good results, like having a whole new toy all over again! My biggest fear was to of spent time and money and get a disappointing result, thanks to Flea it wasnt!
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Re: Best state of tune?
[Re: ]
#1534635
20/04/2015 18:36
20/04/2015 18:36
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 268 Swansea
DLT
Making a profit
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Making a profit
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 268
Swansea
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Sorry Phil - More importantly, what were your results? No apologies needed, its a good discussion. It made 292bhp a nd 291ft/lbs iirc. Not bad for a tb28 on a warm Combe afternoon. Think I'll put the hybrid on ice for now. Great stuff Having read your other threads, were you running any thinners?
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Re: Best state of tune?
[Re: DLT]
#1534639
20/04/2015 19:05
20/04/2015 19:05
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fiatphil
Unregistered
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fiatphil
Unregistered
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Sorry Phil - More importantly, what were your results? No apologies needed, its a good discussion. It made 292bhp a nd 291ft/lbs iirc. Not bad for a tb28 on a warm Combe afternoon. Think I'll put the hybrid on ice for now. Great stuff Having read your other threads, were you running any thinners? No thinners. Just 99 Ron Momentum.
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Re: Best state of tune?
[Re: dw89]
#1534653
20/04/2015 20:33
20/04/2015 20:33
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367 Staffordshire
Nigel
Forum veteran
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Forum veteran
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
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If the engine gets forged, and torque and bhp is sought the proper way, at what point does the gearbox and viscodrive unit become the limiting factor? Viscodrive struggles at much over 350bhp. The weakpoint in the gearbox is the diff, which can shatter the planet gears if it gets a substantial shock load. If you're gentle with launches, the standard box will happily cope with 500bhp+
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