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Design history of Alfa GTV & Fiat Coupe
#1344989
20/05/2012 23:10
20/05/2012 23:10
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 826 Kent
cyborg7
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Enjoying the ride
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Wondering if anyone on here knows much about the design history of both models, which came first, which design bits were plagerised from which etc etc. Although both were under Fiat corporation I understood that both were fiercely independent. And I know Pinnafaria had a hand in both, but the Bangle slashes and the Kamm tail in both models are too similar to be co-incidence and must have either come from some sort of collaboration, plagarism or similar inspiration. Or was the tail just dictated by aerodynamics. Seems unlikely.
Just interested if anyone knows a bit more as not much on here or on tinternet that gives history. I've done wikipedia etc. before its suggested.
Also please can any mods lock instantly if this goes off track and descends into which is best. Must be a close 2nd to the "which oil" posts and thats not the intention only to understand which inspired which?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfa_Romeo_GTV_%26_Spider
Last edited by cyborg7; 20/05/2012 23:12.
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Re: Design history of Alfa GTV & Fiat Coupe
[Re: cyborg7]
#1345002
20/05/2012 23:48
20/05/2012 23:48
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johnnybravoturbo
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johnnybravoturbo
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I heard from a chap who used to work in the fiat factory that the Coupe was supposed to be an Alfa GTV but Alfa rejected it. So it then got given the Fiat badge.
Dont quote me on this as these arent my words.
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Re: Design history of Alfa GTV & Fiat Coupe
[Re: cyborg7]
#1345610
23/05/2012 00:44
23/05/2012 00:44
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 730
t0m0
Enjoying the ride
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Enjoying the ride
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Posts: 730
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I own both and all i know is that if they put the positive bits from both cars they would have made one hell of a car but they compromised on both and made two very stylish charaterful cars that have a good few flaws.
Out of the two i would say if 2 brand new mint examples were avaliable a 20vt plus/LE is better than a V6 GTV/Cup.....but i feel that the galvanising was SO much better on the GTV that if you were to decide on one to keep now the GTV wins =(
Last edited by t0m0; 23/05/2012 01:25.
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Re: Design history of Alfa GTV & Fiat Coupe
[Re: cyborg7]
#1345615
23/05/2012 01:07
23/05/2012 01:07
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,034 Sweden
Per
I need some sleep
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I need some sleep
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,034
Sweden
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Rubbish, BOTH Fiat and Alfa needed new cars and did what they could within the restriction of the Tipo floorpan. Fiat Coupe development was several years before GTV, but Alfa went a lot further in refining/strengthening the Tipo chassie. If the Coupe was to be an Alfa it would've been a very different car - like the GTV. There have been ideas, however, that the Coupe once was meant as a low-price, peoples-Ferrari. Something like the Porsche 924. Looking at the overall design it does make sence, but when I asked Chris Bangle he denied it. He did confirm, though, that the Pininfarina proposal for Fiat Coupe did go on to be the Peugeot 406 Coupe. And that the interior had to be the bland std 406 since Fiat already snatched the Pininfarina interior.
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Re: Design history of Alfa GTV & Fiat Coupe
[Re: cyborg7]
#1345922
23/05/2012 22:25
23/05/2012 22:25
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 826 Kent
cyborg7
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Club member 1400
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OP
Club member 1400
Enjoying the ride
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 826
Kent
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That's interesting - didn't know fiat was that much earlier. Assume that Chris Bangle didn't have any involvement in the GTV then even despite the slash in the side. Glad Pinninfarina exterior got binned as the 406 was bland in the extreme and Bangle got it so much better.
Last edited by cyborg7; 23/05/2012 22:31.
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Re: Design history of Alfa GTV & Fiat Coupe
[Re: cyborg7]
#1414581
06/03/2013 13:21
06/03/2013 13:21
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Nello
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Nello
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Apologies for the revival and if this is a repost (I did try the search!) but not seen this one before: " Chris Bangle, former car designer for BMW, sent in this photo and writes: "This picture is back from 1991. That's me and a plastic modeler in the wind tunnel working on the Coupe Fiat. We were at the stage where the model has two alternatives for rear taillights. For the presentation we would use a mirror against the car to show a symmetrical image." Glad they did not use the left side design!
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Re: Design history of Alfa GTV & Fiat Coupe
[Re: bockers]
#1414639
06/03/2013 17:43
06/03/2013 17:43
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TimR
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TimR
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I had a GTV courtesy car yesterday and although it's nice enough it was much harder to get in and out of than the Coupe which I found surprising since they're both on the same floorpan. It does have fairly massive sills though
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Re: Design history of Alfa GTV & Fiat Coupe
[Re: cyborg7]
#1414650
06/03/2013 19:01
06/03/2013 19:01
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Nello
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Nello
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I've always thought the GTV interior to be a bit lacking... The seats always seemed unsupportive and dash a little dull and dis-conjointed. Used to know someone with the GTV6 - silver with Red that did look nice and a GTV Cup would definately still catch my eye.
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Re: Design history of Alfa GTV & Fiat Coupe
[Re: cyborg7]
#1414683
06/03/2013 21:50
06/03/2013 21:50
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davejones81
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davejones81
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Re: Design history of Alfa GTV & Fiat Coupe
[Re: ]
#1414689
06/03/2013 22:18
06/03/2013 22:18
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tim42
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tim42
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Really nice to see the two together; both lovely cars in very different ways
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Re: Design history of Alfa GTV & Fiat Coupe
[Re: ]
#1414696
06/03/2013 22:59
06/03/2013 22:59
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davejones81
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davejones81
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In summary:-
The coupe was a LOT more comfortable (Recaro's admittedly). The alfa seats are awful, sat on them not in them. The windscreen also starts too low, we're 6ft 1 and 6ft 3 and you have to hunker down in the alfa. It made it feel cramped and as someone else said, the sills are far bigger on the GTV.
The throttle response on the alfa was unreal. You would kangaroo sometimes over rough ground as it made your foot bounce the throttle, it was so sensitive. Too sensitive really but it was accentuated by the amazingly brilliant v6.
The boot on the alfa is a lot smaller, virtually useless. Its because of the rear suspension setup. It made for a more planted rear end with passive rear wheel steer though.
The sound and grunt of the v6 is amazing. Such a pure engine and a joy to look at as well!
It had better rear-end proportions in the guise my brother had.
BUT overall, the coupe seemed better than it in most areas. It felt a lot quicker even though it was pretty even (I was running 225 bhp standard and he was at 218 bhp) and just was a far more pleasant place to sit, the cabin in the alfa really is too cramped for larger guys. The dash etc is nice in the alfa mind.
Both feel and are special cars and are future classics. I'd love him to have another one, maybe a cup edition.
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Re: Design history of Alfa GTV & Fiat Coupe
[Re: cyborg7]
#1414699
06/03/2013 23:03
06/03/2013 23:03
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Nello
Unregistered
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Nello
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Nice photos dave.......and Farmhouse
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Re: Design history of Alfa GTV & Fiat Coupe
[Re: ]
#1414710
07/03/2013 00:07
07/03/2013 00:07
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Pigman
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Pigman
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In summary:-
The coupe was a LOT more comfortable (Recaro's admittedly). The alfa seats are awful, sat on them not in them. The windscreen also starts too low, we're 6ft 1 and 6ft 3 and you have to hunker down in the alfa. It made it feel cramped and as someone else said, the sills are far bigger on the GTV.
The throttle response on the alfa was unreal. You would kangaroo sometimes over rough ground as it made your foot bounce the throttle, it was so sensitive. Too sensitive really but it was accentuated by the amazingly brilliant v6.
The boot on the alfa is a lot smaller, virtually useless. Its because of the rear suspension setup. It made for a more planted rear end with passive rear wheel steer though.
The sound and grunt of the v6 is amazing. Such a pure engine and a joy to look at as well!
It had better rear-end proportions in the guise my brother had.
BUT overall, the coupe seemed better than it in most areas. It felt a lot quicker even though it was pretty even (I was running 225 bhp standard and he was at 218 bhp) and just was a far more pleasant place to sit, the cabin in the alfa really is too cramped for larger guys. The dash etc is nice in the alfa mind.
Both feel and are special cars and are future classics. I'd love him to have another one, maybe a cup edition. I've owned an Alfa 156, which lead me to look at the GTV V6 quite seriously, but then I came across the Coupé, almost by accident. I remembered it's shape with mixed feelings, but had no idea it was fast. My first ride in a yellow VT6 convinced me and you not only get a better boot in the Coupé, you get rear seats that can be sat on, rather than just for transporting a pizza. But, I'll be called a heretic for this, the GTV is without doubt, a better looking car with cutting edge, but pretty shapes and proportions, that are somehow more coherent. I wouldn't swap my Coupé for a GTV for reasons of performance and practicality, but I wish the Coupé was as pretty.
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Re: Design history of Alfa GTV & Fiat Coupe
[Re: cyborg7]
#1414852
07/03/2013 19:34
07/03/2013 19:34
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Muzzynumber2
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Muzzynumber2
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I love the look of both cars but in the pictures above ^^ when they are sst together the alfa looks old in style but the coupe looks timeless.
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Re: Design history of Alfa GTV & Fiat Coupe
[Re: cyborg7]
#1414854
07/03/2013 19:39
07/03/2013 19:39
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Nello
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Nello
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Nice article Charlie though not sure the writer is a fan
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Re: Design history of Alfa GTV & Fiat Coupe
[Re: cyborg7]
#1414864
07/03/2013 20:38
07/03/2013 20:38
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,162 Glos
Brilly1uk
Club member 1034
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Club member 1034
Competition Level
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,162
Glos
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As these lovely photos show, two very nice looking cars which compliment each other really well. When they were both new it was great that we could choose from either one and both have an individual style which means they should become classic cars. Lets hope car manufacturers will be as brave in future! I always loved the look of those chrome exhaust manifolds on the V6 Alfa...
Fiat Coupe 20VT Alfa Romeo Spider BMW X3
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Re: Design history of Alfa GTV & Fiat Coupe
[Re: Brilly1uk]
#1415159
09/03/2013 06:44
09/03/2013 06:44
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,073 South Cambs
Barmybob
Hon Club Member: 003
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Hon Club Member: 003
Je suis un Coupé
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,073
South Cambs
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I always loved the look of those chrome exhaust manifolds on the V6 Alfa... Inlet manifold pipes I get to look at them whenever the bonnet goes up on the 166
Gone Audi mad!
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Re: Design history of Alfa GTV & Fiat Coupe
[Re: ]
#1415199
09/03/2013 13:39
09/03/2013 13:39
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Alesi
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Alesi
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I get to look at them whenever the bonnet goes up on the 166 Which is frequently on an Alfa ... when the bonnet catch works! Oi that's harsh You know Bob has two cars which suffer from that
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Re: Design history of Alfa GTV & Fiat Coupe
[Re: cyborg7]
#1415211
09/03/2013 15:16
09/03/2013 15:16
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gargoil
Unregistered
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gargoil
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Did Chris Bangle design the GTV as well?
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Re: Design history of Alfa GTV & Fiat Coupe
[Re: ]
#1415231
09/03/2013 16:31
09/03/2013 16:31
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Alesi
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Alesi
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Did Chris Bangle design the GTV as well? No he didn't. The GTV is designed by Enrico Fumia of Pininfarina in cooperation with Alfa Romeo Centro Stile lead by Walter de Silva. Both cars have one man in common as the initiator of these projects: CEO of FIAT Paolo Cantarella. Interesting to know that the first prototype had a similarity with the Coupé: metal pieces of the dashboard to receive the same colour as the bodywork. This was eventually rejected by de Silva.
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