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Track settings #1596790
17/03/2017 09:35
17/03/2017 09:35

M
mootch
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mootch
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M



Hi.
Having finally got my coupe tarmac rally car project underway,i need to find a decent tarmac setup, all the single venues are very smooth so a race/track setup is fine. As the car will not go on broken tarmac hard setups are ok. So I am looking for some help with regard to spring rates and dampers including anti roll bars, any input would be very much appreciated.
Thanks in advance
Mike

Re: Track settings [Re: ] #1596797
17/03/2017 10:52
17/03/2017 10:52
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,290
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Dazvr6 Offline
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Can't help with spring rates but my coupe is fitted with BC Racing coilovers with adjustable top mounts on the front. It's also dropped around 30mm.
They are set to the softest damper setting and it's still too hard for normal road use imo.
On new/smooth tarmac though.....

It's got about 1 degree negative camber on the front and it turns in really well but is a little 'tail happy' at speed.


Last edited by Dazvr6; 18/03/2017 09:46.
Re: Track settings [Re: ] #1596806
17/03/2017 12:21
17/03/2017 12:21

M
mootch
Unregistered
mootch
Unregistered
M



Daz, thanks for quick reply, what roll bars are you using. I have read very mixed reviews regarding the bc stuff, but I must admit they look pretty good and I guess the early issues are settled now

Last edited by mootch; 17/03/2017 12:47. Reason: spelling mistake
Re: Track settings [Re: ] #1596808
17/03/2017 12:34
17/03/2017 12:34
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,290
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Dazvr6 Offline
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Not sure tbh.
The previous owner had it all set up but I will measure the rear bar later and let you know what size it is.

Re: Track settings [Re: ] #1596814
17/03/2017 14:08
17/03/2017 14:08
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,366
Staffordshire
Nigel Offline
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Staffordshire
Mootch - your setup will depend on how you want the car to behave.

I have experimented with steering and suspension geometry on the Coupe for several years and I have found that you can have "ultra-stable", through to "tail-happy" and anywhere inbetween.

"Ultra-stable" is great for big wide-open circuits, where corner speeds are high and where you don't want the back end to be too mobile. It can be frustrating when you want sharp turn-in going into tight corners.

"Tail-happy" is huge fun on tight twisty circuits, but it can be properly scary when cornering at high speed (ie over 100mph)

For "ultra-stable", my settings are something like:-

2mm toe-in
Standard camber / caster
medium damping at both ends, erring towards soft at the rear
22mm rear ARB
38psi front, 30psi rear

For tail-happy, try the following:-

parallel toe
1.5mm - 2mm negative camber
Firm damping both ends, with the rear set a bit harder
24mm rear ARB
36-37psi front, 31-32psi rear

I now have my car set to "fairly pointy, but quite stable", with settings as follows:-

1mm toe-in
1.25mm negative camber
Medium damping both ends
23mm rear ARB
37psi front, 30psi rear

For all setups, I strongly recommend matched tyres on all four corners - if you put different tyres front and rear, you'll upset the balance.

Also, for all of the above settings, you should have an upper brace (and ideally a lower brace too). I also strongly recommend a Quaife diff if you want any chance of putting the power down at the same time as having any steering angle.


[Linked Image]
Re: Track settings [Re: ] #1596832
17/03/2017 18:02
17/03/2017 18:02

M
mootch
Unregistered
mootch
Unregistered
M



Thanks nigel , I was hoping you would reply tbh, the pointy stable setting sounds pretty good, and I don't really need much more than 100 mph at all.
I am tempted to try the kba racing gear, I know there have been some issues with them, but on a lot of other forums they like them a lot.
Regarding the tyres, I was thinking of running harder fronts as the weight on soft rubber will cause them to go off pretty quick ( I think ?).

Re: Track settings [Re: ] #1596843
17/03/2017 20:25
17/03/2017 20:25

K
Kerr20v
Unregistered
Kerr20v
Unregistered
K



Hi...

I have a track only coupe and run the following spec-:

Will post some video links to give you an idea, it has a slightly twitchy rear end in the wet mainly due to the size of the arb, but its flat and turns in very very well!

Bc Coilovers with pillowball topmounts
-2 deg camber
2mm toe
Firm on front med on rear

Upper and lower strut brace
Brand new bottom arms
Powerflex arb links
Whiteline front arb
24mm rear arb
Solid rear bushes
Quiafe diff
Federal 595rs /ao48 tyres

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kNZU5cnpGmw

Re: Track settings [Re: ] #1596849
17/03/2017 22:23
17/03/2017 22:23

M
mootch
Unregistered
mootch
Unregistered
M



Thanks for the vid. Car seems to go well, what are pillow ball mounts ?

Re: Track settings [Re: ] #1596863
18/03/2017 08:28
18/03/2017 08:28

K
Kerr20v
Unregistered
Kerr20v
Unregistered
K



Its adjustable top mounts on the front struts, allows for camber adjustment

Re: Track settings [Re: ] #1597974
05/04/2017 15:06
05/04/2017 15:06
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 157
Surrey Hills, U.K
G
godders Offline
On a journey
godders  Offline
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G

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 157
Surrey Hills, U.K
Hi Kerr20v,

What's your view on the Federal 595?
Also what wheel/profile combo are you using?

I'm a bit of a newb to Coupe Track day cars - I've just bought myself a 20VT+ 6 speed to use just for track days so trying to find my way a little. I saw you vid' and was impressed by your car control (though slightly less impressed by your whistling ;o) and the performance the Coupe showed over the other vehicles on the track (perhaps because it was a little damp also??)

Thanks in advance

Regards

Sg

Re: Track settings [Re: ] #1597996
05/04/2017 20:35
05/04/2017 20:35

K
Kerr20v
Unregistered
Kerr20v
Unregistered
K



Hi, I run 205 50 16 or 225 45 16
The federals offer excellent value for money, they are very good in the damo; but I find they get hot and go off after a few "fast" laps in the dry.

I'm currently still perfecting the setup, as I was recently out in the dry and it wasn't performing as well, think my tyres were perhaps too old and had gone off so to speak.

The coupe isn't a good handling car on track, not factory anyway but it can be greatly improved!

I have a set of slicks to try and will report back asap.

Good luck and thanks!

Re: Track settings [Re: ] #1598040
06/04/2017 13:50
06/04/2017 13:50
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,366
Staffordshire
Nigel Offline
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Staffordshire
@ Kerr20v - how are you finding the BC coilovers? I've heard good and bad things about them (including several catastrophic failures in the hands of the Evo boys) - the FCCUK group buy certainly had some issues while they were being developed

My Osravs are now 5 years old and one of the rears is leaking very slightly, so I'll be looking for something to replace them. Now that the car isn't a daily driver, I might consider some coilovers


[Linked Image]
Re: Track settings [Re: ] #1598043
06/04/2017 15:35
06/04/2017 15:35
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,290
Staffs
Dazvr6 Offline
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I have them on my 16vt Nigel. You're welcome to check them out if you want to.

Re: Track settings [Re: ] #1598044
06/04/2017 15:38
06/04/2017 15:38

K
Kerr20v
Unregistered
Kerr20v
Unregistered
K



I find them very good, especially for the money.
They are smooth on the road too, they were the single best mod in transforming the cars handling, can't comment on durability yet, only done around 2k miles, but that includes 10 track days, with some air and kerbs too! So they will wear out quicker I'd think, I'm going go for gaz golds eventually but the bcs are great for the cash.

Re: Track settings [Re: ] #1598924
20/04/2017 14:39
20/04/2017 14:39
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 157
Surrey Hills, U.K
G
godders Offline
On a journey
godders  Offline
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G

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 157
Surrey Hills, U.K
Thanks for the info Kerr.

My first trackday in the car is end of the month in Anglesey (28th). It will be completely standard apart from the few enhancements the previous owner fitted (chip and stainless exhaust).

I'm having a complete service (oil, brake fluid, belts, fluffy dice etc replaced) so it should be at least healthy.

I suspect in standard suspension setup it will be "interesting" but it will give me a good idea where to spend my money and efforts.

End of August I'm off to Nordschliefe for DN18 so lets see what the Coupe can do there! I hope to at least have better wheels and tyres then.

Thanks for the info - good thread!

Regards

Sg

Re: Track settings [Re: ] #1599108
22/04/2017 18:16
22/04/2017 18:16

M
mootch
Unregistered
mootch
Unregistered
M



Godders,
As that is around the corner for me I will come along and have a watch.
Mike

Re: Track settings [Re: ] #1599562
29/04/2017 18:56
29/04/2017 18:56
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 157
Surrey Hills, U.K
G
godders Offline
On a journey
godders  Offline
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G

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 157
Surrey Hills, U.K
So Anglesey went well, car stayed on road, I smiled a lot and realised in road trim Coupes are not the best handling track cars.

It's currently fitted with UniRoyal 'rain master' tyres and they are s*t on track. With standard suspension (and lack of talent) I spent most of the time driving on the tyre wall rather than the flat stuff on top!!!!

I have some piccies which I'll post showing the tyre wear. Basically they over heated at which point the handling became quite ..... interesting.

That said irrespective of standard handling the car is quick. Remember this is basically a standard 20VT 6 Speed Plus. Few cars could over take me on the 'straight' (if you call the slightly straighty bit in Anglesey a straight!!!!), admittedly the odd Radical etc I definitely let pass and as I was quite pedestrian around the bends felt it only right to let people through but the Focus ST's with race tyres I let them have a good view of that Coupe Boot lid

So I have a few things to do. I've got Sparco seats and harnesses to fit but ran out of time for Friday which was a shame as part of the trouble with the handling is I spent a lot of my time bracing myself against various parts of the car as I slipped out of the leather seats - lol

So I need some decent tyres, I need to look at the handling especially the turn in and bite (though I expect the latter is partially down to the rubber)

So I'm on a journey and though I don't want to hijack this thread welcome very much input from you guys. Finally big thanks to CountryCruising (Joe) and his team of doing a complete service and brake overhaul and getting the car serviced and ready for Friday in very short time!

I have to say, I always thought Coupe brakes were chocolate but after Joes fettling they were awesome and were always there when I pounded them!

And finally, finally! The comments I got about the car were great, most people thought I was completely bonkers using a Fiat Coupe as a track day car but people really appreciated an 'Italian Classic' on circuit and I was the guy people walked up to and chatted to, not the guys with the Caterhams, Radicals or Atoms (we're not even mention the BMW boys)

Regards

Sg

Re: Track settings [Re: ] #1599609
30/04/2017 17:18
30/04/2017 17:18
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,252
Windsor/ Reading
knight7660 Offline
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Posts: 2,252
Windsor/ Reading
Good to hear you enjoyed it and as you said on Thursday when i was at Joes this is the very slippery slope when bitten by the track bug and good to hear the Coupe getting the much deserved attention in the pits.

Tyres as we were speaking id go for the R888's or AD08r's if you keep an eye on Fleabay you will find good used sets for the price of 1 brand new one if your wanting to keep cost down.

next is suspension poly bush, ARB's and some eibach/bilstein or BC coil overs with the little improvements you will be give most things a run for there money and surprise yourself what level of expensive car you out perform.


LE53 (452BHp & 389ftlb's with Quaife)
Wine red VIS FOOFY
Audi RS4 B7
Re: Track settings [Re: ] #1599624
30/04/2017 20:15
30/04/2017 20:15
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,298
Pontefract, West Yorkshire
andyps Offline
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Pontefract, West Yorkshire
I can recommend the AD08R, I used them for the last three years on my Coupe which is predominantly a hillclimb car. They give good grip but are OK for general road use. Not mega in the wet (I had AD08 rather than the AD08R which is supposed to be better) but never had any concerns about using them.

Ironically, given what you have said about the Uniroyal Rain Master that is what I now want for mine. The class rules have changed this year meaning we can use R888 and similar - I've got some of those but as they have so little tread depth and really aren't good in the wet I may as well have a set of wheels/tyres for road use and to put on for the hillclimb if it is a wet day - on that basis the best possible wet weather tyre makes sense for me.

Incidentally, I am running B6 shocks and EIbach springs with, this year, the Eiback anti-roll bars front and back. Corners really flat now . First season I ran standard, second I had the springs and shocks which knocked about a second off my times, then I went for the AD08s which were worth about another second until they went off. With this years changes, including a quaife diff I'm hoping for at least another second. Need to take some brave pills too!


Andy

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Re: Track settings [Re: ] #1599628
30/04/2017 20:44
30/04/2017 20:44
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,298
Pontefract, West Yorkshire
andyps Offline
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Forgot to ask, which Sparco seat have you got? Will be interested to see pictures once you have fitted it as that is on my list for next winter.


Andy

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Re: Track settings [Re: ] #1599630
30/04/2017 20:55
30/04/2017 20:55
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,114
FCSS 01684 593187
Countrycruising Offline
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Countrycruising  Offline
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Pleased to read you had a good day and the tyres were the weak link, not the driver wink

As already mentioned above you can improve the handling massively which will allow you to be more confident and controlled in the corners, defiantly some track tyres and better seats for comfort, and only then maybe look at increasing power.

Ps, fancy LeMans in August chinny laugh

Re: Track settings [Re: ] #1599691
02/05/2017 14:26
02/05/2017 14:26
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,298
Pontefract, West Yorkshire
andyps Offline
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If you want out and out track day tyres for standard size wheels these are a bargain - don't mind sharing now I've confirmed a set for myself! eBay link for R888R


Andy

[Linked Image]
Re: Track settings [Re: ] #1599716
02/05/2017 19:38
02/05/2017 19:38

M
mootch
Unregistered
mootch
Unregistered
M



godders, sorry I missed you, I went over on the sunday only to find a sprint on, dimbo !!!
andy, what spring rates are you running.
mike

Re: Track settings [Re: ] #1599720
02/05/2017 21:34
02/05/2017 21:34
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,298
Pontefract, West Yorkshire
andyps Offline
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Posts: 1,298
Pontefract, West Yorkshire
I've got the Eibach lowering springs they make for the Coupe - not sure of the rates as I bought them secondhand but they are pretty stiff. They helped massively with the handling and the anti-roll bars have made another big difference this year in keeping the car level. Having typed that I thought I'd try to see the difference in photos I've found of the car, no 100 is this year, 90 is the same event and corner last year and 106 was the first year of competing on standard, original, suspension
click to enlarge
click to enlarge
click to enlarge


Andy

[Linked Image]
Re: Track settings [Re: andyps] #1599766
03/05/2017 12:34
03/05/2017 12:34
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 157
Surrey Hills, U.K
G
godders Offline
On a journey
godders  Offline
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 157
Surrey Hills, U.K
Hi Andy,

Just getting time to catch-up on posts!!!
So looking to get Toyo 888R's and it seems I'm getting Eibach ARB's Springs and Bilsteins laugh

Back to the RainSports (my bad, not sure where Master cames form). To me they have a good looking tread pattern but I would say they have a bit of a winter tyre "feel" to the tyre wall and shoulder, they make a bit of a droning racket when you lean on them, initially I wondered whether this was my wheel bearings, but I was assured by the circuit instructor it was the tyres.

I definately needed to up the tyre pressures, being a newoob to this I was initially driving it on standard pressure then upto 30PSI (though tbh, didn't notice any difference), i suspect I should have gone a bit more looking at the info posted earlier on here!

I would definitely say these are a wet weather tyre, when you lean into them they flex which is good on wet/damp roads but of course less than optimum in the dry!!

Its a shame you are so far away from me as once I upgrade my rubber crazy I won't be needing them, they have a 2016 manu' date and were fitted latter part of last year so have apart from my chinnagins on Friday minimal wear!

So seats, I've bought Sparco Grid II, these are similar to EV/EVO II but have a deeper seat and adjustable pads and were just under £300 a seat from Demon Tweaks. I have these with adjustable base and universal mount for Driver and just universal for passenger. Along with this I have TRS Magnum 6 Point harnesses.

I'm hoping to fit them this weekend and will post some pictures - I suspect I should create a project thread on here for what I'm up to shocked

Regards

Re: Track settings [Re: andyps] #1599768
03/05/2017 12:40
03/05/2017 12:40
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 157
Surrey Hills, U.K
G
godders Offline
On a journey
godders  Offline
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 157
Surrey Hills, U.K
Andy,
Big difference, in the early pictures, look like you have air suspension and are in off road mode!!!! Just like my Coupe on Friday. Without doubt the factory setup is definately Grand Tourer!

The Eibachs seems to make a big difference.

Regards

Re: Track settings [Re: ] #1599771
03/05/2017 12:50
03/05/2017 12:50
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 157
Surrey Hills, U.K
G
godders Offline
On a journey
godders  Offline
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 157
Surrey Hills, U.K
Hi Mike,

No problem, probably a good idea as I'm blaming the tyres when in reality it was probably all me and you would have been able to ratify that if you were there rolleyes

Regards

Re: Track settings [Re: ] #1599827
03/05/2017 20:34
03/05/2017 20:34
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,298
Pontefract, West Yorkshire
andyps Offline
Club member 1482
andyps  Offline
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Posts: 1,298
Pontefract, West Yorkshire
Hi Godders - I've sent you a PM


Andy

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Re: Track settings [Re: andyps] #1600000
06/05/2017 07:42
06/05/2017 07:42
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,252
Windsor/ Reading
knight7660 Offline
Competition Level
knight7660  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,252
Windsor/ Reading
Originally Posted By andyps
If you want out and out track day tyres for standard size wheels these are a bargain - don't mind sharing now I've confirmed a set for myself! eBay link for R888R


To all that are interested in the tyres from the link it has best offers as well. I offered £250 for a set of 4 and after 24Hrs he accepted so paid and should be on there way next week to me


LE53 (452BHp & 389ftlb's with Quaife)
Wine red VIS FOOFY
Audi RS4 B7
Re: Track settings [Re: ] #1600031
06/05/2017 20:05
06/05/2017 20:05
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,298
Pontefract, West Yorkshire
andyps Offline
Club member 1482
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Pontefract, West Yorkshire
Bugger - means I overpaid by £50! I offered £300 and got them for that. They arrived two days later.


Andy

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