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xdf file for 16VT #1387418
25/10/2012 08:40
25/10/2012 08:40

J
Julien
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Julien
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J



Hi,

I've been tuning my fiat coupe 16vturbo for the last 12 months with tunerpro and it seems to work very well (actually it's got about 320hp+ with standard internals on e85 with 1000cc injectors).

I'm looking for people (fiat coupe enthusiats of course...) who are used to work with tunerpro to exchange on maps and especially xdf.

The only xdf files I have for fiat coupe 16VT come from the old prograle site and especially from k_j (kj16v from this forum i suppose??).

I know there are a lot of maps which are not defined in my xdf (I have found about 50-60 maps more but still need to assiociate them to their parameters...)

Regards.

Julien

Last edited by Julien; 25/10/2012 08:53.
Re: xdf file for 16VT [Re: ] #1387443
25/10/2012 09:59
25/10/2012 09:59
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,725
London
kj16v Offline
My life on the forum
kj16v  Offline
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Posts: 1,725
London
Hi. Good to know my xdf is still being put to good use! That one's pretty old now and could do with replacing. PM'd

Re: xdf file for 16VT [Re: ] #1387467
25/10/2012 11:24
25/10/2012 11:24

T
Turboman87
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Turboman87
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T



Do you know this site: http://www.lanciahf.eu/

He is called Dink on this forum. But his real name is Xavier. He lives in south off France. And is a real expert for mapping 16VT's.

I bought my first stage 1 chip 5 years ago. Now I have the stage 3 kit from him also with his stage 3 chip. He has lots off experience with this engine. And he has experience with E85 too. So you could contact him for mapping etc.

Re: xdf file for 16VT [Re: ] #1387480
25/10/2012 12:44
25/10/2012 12:44

J
Julien
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Julien
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J



Originally Posted By: Turboman87
Do you know this site: http://www.lanciahf.eu/

He is called Dink on this forum. But his real name is Xavier. He lives in south off France. And is a real expert for mapping 16VT's.

I bought my first stage 1 chip 5 years ago. Now I have the stage 3 kit from him also with his stage 3 chip. He has lots off experience with this engine. And he has experience with E85 too. So you could contact him for mapping etc.


Thank you for your advice wink

Yes I've already met him but it seems he doesn't share informations for "free" about the mapping (as I do with others frenchs "mappers").
I think it's his job / a part of his job to sell and developp chips for some cars. rolleyes

I'm not a professionnal in engine or in car but I like to understand and developp tools for myself and share it with the very enthusiasts guy. laugh

Re: xdf file for 16VT [Re: ] #1387493
25/10/2012 13:43
25/10/2012 13:43

T
Turboman87
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Turboman87
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T



I know what you mean.

From his side. If he would give it for free then there is nobody to sell. And development costs money too.

Thought that you would knew him but was worth a try.

Re: xdf file for 16VT [Re: ] #1387802
26/10/2012 19:27
26/10/2012 19:27

P
PhoB
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PhoB
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P



What do you want to change in ECU, if its working ok, now?

Did you use 1000cc lowZ ?

Re: xdf file for 16VT [Re: ] #1387916
27/10/2012 13:58
27/10/2012 13:58

J
Julien
Unregistered
Julien
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J



Originally Posted By: PhoB
What do you want to change in ECU, if its working ok, now?

Did you use 1000cc lowZ ?


There is cranking advance and ACT injection correction that should be change for e85 as this fuel does'nt have the same properties with coold weather.

Yes, I use low Z injectors + resistor box from honda accord.

But others fiat in france use high Z 1000cc injectors with e85 wink

Re: xdf file for 16VT [Re: ] #1387924
27/10/2012 15:11
27/10/2012 15:11

P
PhoB
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PhoB
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P



I dont know, if isnt already in updated KJ xdf, but i think that cranking advance is at 8B80h(adress for tunerpro xdf offset) 1x16 table.

Location of air temp correction i never used, so dont know where it is. How much you feel it needs to be changed?

About injectors i asked because of resistance, i was told, that ecu is capable to work with lowZ too, but im scared to test it smile

Re: xdf file for 16VT [Re: ] #1387985
27/10/2012 21:03
27/10/2012 21:03

J
Julien
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Julien
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J



Eh, I'm not sure but on the last xdf, the adress 8B80h is given as "ignition safe mode"

For the ACT correction, I tuned the car about 2 weeks ago when the weather was hotter I it an between 11.5-11.8 AFR then now that it's colder, I never go under 12-12.2 AFR which isn't really good for the future/colder days

I think the ecu is capable to work with low Z ONLY with a resistor box. It won't be reliable to run low Z injectors only with the original ECU. wink

It runs perfect, I was on high Z 550cc injectors before and the new 1000cc/low Z are as easy to tune as the old ones.

Re: xdf file for 16VT [Re: ] #1397783
13/12/2012 09:01
13/12/2012 09:01

D
doc_rob
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doc_rob
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D



I made an .adx a while back. It only works with TunerPro v5. You can download it here: http://www.tunerpro.net/downloadBinDefs.htm
(Search for: Lancia_v1_1.adx).

Re: xdf file for 16VT [Re: ] #1397790
13/12/2012 09:46
13/12/2012 09:46

J
Julien
Unregistered
Julien
Unregistered
J



Originally Posted By: doc_rob
I made an .adx a while back. It only works with TunerPro v5. You can download it here: http://www.tunerpro.net/downloadBinDefs.htm
(Search for: Lancia_v1_1.adx).


I guess the ADX file is used to display the parameters while you are running is that right? wink

Re: xdf file for 16VT [Re: ] #1397858
13/12/2012 14:29
13/12/2012 14:29

D
doc_rob
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doc_rob
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D



Until v4 of TunerPro this is correct, but v5 has only one (.xdf) file for data-scanning and altering of EPROM Data. So the new .adx includes the old .xdf and whatever file scanner pro used. But as you can see, it was a long time ago.

Re: xdf file for 16VT [Re: ] #1576787
12/06/2016 17:46
12/06/2016 17:46

D
deltaza
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deltaza
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D



UP!

Hi guys! Is there a presentation area in this forum?
I couldn't find it.
Anyway, I'm Alberto, from Italy, a newbe of this forum.
I own a Lancia Delta Integrale 16v, so same engine of yours!
I have a friend with a Coupè 16v Turbo and we are trying to map its ecu.
I use Tunerpro and never had problems with the Delta ecu (Iaw 4WE).
Now with P8 4WF of Coupè...some issues.

Do you have a good xdf for that?

Or at least the exact map addresses?

I've found some xdfs on the web, but...I can't understand how they can work.
The map addresses, reading the file HEX, are from 7000 to 7FFF, while the XDfs I found, start from 8000....

Especially...the duty cycle table (called some times "matrice") is at 8DD0

The yellow box that indicates the exact point where the ecu is reading floats randomly, apparently (for example jumping from 2000rpm ... to 6500....when the car is at idle rmps) and in any case it is always not in the right place. Really apparently random.
And above all, changing values you can obtain ecu cuts but not significant turbo curve changes.


The values in the table seems to be....turbo values....also if they are a little bit strange. For example high values also at low rpms...

This is the turbo map as it appears:

click to enlarge

Last edited by deltaza; 12/06/2016 19:38. Reason: writing mistakes
Re: xdf file for 16VT [Re: ] #1577076
14/06/2016 20:46
14/06/2016 20:46
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,725
London
kj16v Offline
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kj16v  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,725
London
Hi. Are you using the Delta xdf for the Coupe? If so, that won't work. The Coupe ECU is more advanced and the maps are in completely different locations.

My old Coupe xdf is still up there and it will work fine on immobiliser ECUs. If you have a non-immobiliser ECU you'll need to adjust some of the offsets (map addresses)

Re: xdf file for 16VT [Re: ] #1577103
15/06/2016 10:03
15/06/2016 10:03

J
Julien
Unregistered
Julien
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J



Are you using the Hexadecimal file from the fiat coupe 16v turbo that you are trying to tune ?

Last edited by Julien; 15/06/2016 10:04.
Re: xdf file for 16VT [Re: ] #1577195
15/06/2016 20:27
15/06/2016 20:27

D
deltaza
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deltaza
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D



Hi...thank you for answering!

Iaw P8 4WG of delta Evo2 (not Evo1) has the same addresses of Coupè Iaw P8 4WF...in fact if you read that map with Coupè XDF you'll obtain (apparently at least) right values (for example correct bp are a sure sign...or not?! Also congruous values in the tables). It's different for the P8 ecu of Alfa Romeo 155 Q4 or Ford Escorth Cosworth.
But, anyway, that's not important. I don't care of it.

I said I'm trying to map a Coupè, with a Coupè ecu...with a Coupè XDF.

Thanks to Tunerpro developer, on that forum, I've discovered that (I don't know why) all XDFs for Coupè I've found on the web, are moved of 8000....infact if you go on "Base offset" field in the XDF header (Ctrl + F2), you'll see that thing.
If you put that parameter to 0000 and after you'll correct all the addresses....you will obtain the same results!
So, returning to my first post, the turbo duty cycle table IS at 0DD0...not at 8DD0.
That thing has been discovered (but not explained)....now I've to understand the other problems...

I ask you:
The table I've posted above is the one of a original Coupè eprom.
Do you agree with that?
Do you think they are correct values? Do you have the same 4 bp for the trottle valve degrees and the 16 for rpms?
When you are on the road, mapping with an emulator, is the yellow box moving correctly in that map?

And yes...it's a Coupè without immobilizer....but what could be the differences in the xdf? All the values apparently appears correct in the xdf...

I repeat:"The yellow box that indicates the exact point where the ecu is reading, floats randomly, apparently (for example jumping from 2000rpm ... to 6500....when the car is at idle rmps) and in any case it is always not in the right place. Really apparently random.
And above all, changing values you can obtain ecu cuts but not significant turbo curve changes."

I need to know if you have the same values of the table above (or similar with a tuned eprom) and if, when you modify them, you'll have more turbo pressure.
Because I couldn't obtain more pressure at high rpms...also writing higher values... the pressure decrease always...
Obviously the turbo limit curve put all at 255 (or 1.53 bar)

Re: xdf file for 16VT [Re: ] #1577235
16/06/2016 09:02
16/06/2016 09:02

J
Julien
Unregistered
Julien
Unregistered
J



The map you are talking about is the one controlling the boost control valve (pierburg valve) depending on rpm and TPS angle.

You won't be able to achieve 1.5 bar at high rpm even with the highest setting as the stock turbo is way out of it's working range (see flow map of trim50 compressor).

The data tracing at idle is not representative as the TPS angle is next to 0, it will show you not accurate values on this map.
You should better check it while driving and under full acceleration

Also to check if data tracing is working correctly at idle you should have a look at main injection map as it's driven with intake manifold pressure and rpm.

Re: xdf file for 16VT [Re: ] #1577303
16/06/2016 18:31
16/06/2016 18:31

D
deltaza
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deltaza
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D



Originally Posted By: Julien
The map you are talking about is the one controlling the boost control valve (pierburg valve) depending on rpm and TPS angle.

You won't be able to achieve 1.5 bar at high rpm even with the highest setting as the stock turbo is way out of it's working range (see flow map of trim50 compressor).

The data tracing at idle is not representative as the TPS angle is next to 0, it will show you not accurate values on this map.
You should better check it while driving and under full acceleration

Also to check if data tracing is working correctly at idle you should have a look at main injection map as it's driven with intake manifold pressure and rpm.


The turbocharger of this engine is definitely bigger than the original, the engine is reinforced in some components (head gasket, pistons, connecting rods)...all to substain high turbo pressures.
The problem could be the aps, but we don't want go over 1.5 bar, only last this pressure or at least have more than 0.8 at high rpms, but I have no results, for example, putting at WOT all the boxes to the value of 70.
I'm not a newbie in mapping ecu...with the delta Evo1 4WE really no problems. With that ecu I put higher values in the turbo duty cycle map and it increases immediately as you want.

Back to us...

AFR values at high rpms are very rich...even 10

And about checking data tracking driving and under full acceleration...I said i did, but on that table (turbo duty cycle, matrice... call that as you want....pierburg valve opening times) the yellow box goes random or in a very strange way...not following rpms and pressures...

I asked you if you consider right the table above reading: please, could you tell me it?

Re: xdf file for 16VT [Re: ] #1577314
16/06/2016 21:39
16/06/2016 21:39

P
PhoB
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PhoB
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P



You have mirrored/twisted the boost duty map data. The full throttle at maximum RPM is the left bottom, not right top.
RPM axis have correct values, TPS axis is wrong. Do you have correct adress (0x8DC0)?
Otherwise its a stock non-immo map.
I never have problem with tracing it while driving.

Re: xdf file for 16VT [Re: ] #1577321
16/06/2016 22:12
16/06/2016 22:12

D
DorianStiglic
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DorianStiglic
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D



can someone repair on ecu problem with tps as this is a common problem safe mode because of tps

Re: xdf file for 16VT [Re: ] #1577339
17/06/2016 07:24
17/06/2016 07:24

J
Julien
Unregistered
Julien
Unregistered
J



Originally Posted By: PhoB
You have mirrored/twisted the boost duty map data. The full throttle at maximum RPM is the left bottom, not right top.
RPM axis have correct values, TPS axis is wrong. Do you have correct adress (0x8DC0)?
Otherwise its a stock non-immo map.
I never have problem with tracing it while driving.


I guess the rpm adress should also be checked as it is specific for this matrice it's located at : 0x8DA0

Originally Posted By: DorianStiglic
can someone repair on ecu problem with tps as this is a common problem safe mode because of tps
TPS should be set between -0.5 and 0.5 ° at idle, anything above or beyond these values will engage safe mode on coupe.
This is not a problem linked to xdf wrong adress

Last edited by Julien; 17/06/2016 07:25.
Re: xdf file for 16VT [Re: ] #1577379
17/06/2016 18:59
17/06/2016 18:59

D
deltaza
Unregistered
deltaza
Unregistered
D



Originally Posted By: PhoB
You have mirrored/twisted the boost duty map data. The full throttle at maximum RPM is the left bottom, not right top.
RPM axis have correct values, TPS axis is wrong. Do you have correct adress (0x8DC0)?
Otherwise its a stock non-immo map.
I never have problem with tracing it while driving.


Hi, thank you!

The axes position is not important, because the result is always the same.

Go to: Tools/Preferences.../Table Editor Options:
Reverse Rows Reverse Colums
It's only a way to see the table.

Instead, it's important if you say that the values of TPS were different from:
61.8 - 66.3 - 70.9 - 75.7 (190 - 204 - 218 - 233 converted with the formula X*82.9/255)
Yes, the xdf finds those vaules at 8DC0 (as I said above, in the reality of the HEX file, this value is 0DC0).

What values of TPS do you have? Please, could you tell me?

But...axes direction apart...are the values inside the table correct?

As I said..IT IS a stock map without immobilizer...

Any of you could PLEASE send me a original map of a 4WF ecu with immobilizer?
So maybe I could find differences, if there are.
I could tell you my email address with a private message for that.
I'm helpful to share what I've got....
What I've got:
XDF
two original maps I downloaded years ago from prograle site (one called 193, the other 194)
one "tuned" map for original engine (it runs on this ecu without immobilizer).

Re: xdf file for 16VT [Re: ] #1577398
18/06/2016 01:25
18/06/2016 01:25
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,725
London
kj16v Offline
My life on the forum
kj16v  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,725
London
Boost solenoid duty cycle is from 8DD0
click to enlarge

BTW, I just had a quick check and I made a mistake: the addresses on the non-immobiliser bin are the same as the immobiliser version (05). If you have the the 04 bin then you already have the non-immo version

The 8000h offset is a legacy from the xdf that I started with many years ago. all the parameters were offset by 8000h already and I never bothered to change them!

Re: xdf file for 16VT [Re: ] #1577418
18/06/2016 13:03
18/06/2016 13:03

P
PhoB
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PhoB
Unregistered
P



Axes are just for visual, not have influence on tracking. We understand that. But wrong axes makes you think "twisted" and changing values at different end of table( in conjuction with situation when tracing doesnt show you real position).

I have same correct TPS axis values, as KJ posted in last picture.

I didnt not forced you information that is stock boost duty map. You asked if its stock , so i just tried to answer yes.

0x8000h offset i undestand is in terms of engine computer CPU reading.

Immo binary is possible to download throught tunerpro website.

Re: xdf file for 16VT [Re: kj16v] #1577426
18/06/2016 14:08
18/06/2016 14:08

D
deltaza
Unregistered
deltaza
Unregistered
D



Originally Posted By: kj16v

If you have the the 04 bin then you already have the non-immo version


Yes, I've both 03 and 04 maps. The one above is the 03.
(Not called 193 and 194, my mistake! But 194_03 and 194_04...where the boost maps are very similar).
But they are both different from the one you have posted!

I've downloaded the supposed immobilizer map from the Tunerpro website (thanks PhoB) but look the image below...
I see in a comparison...this table is the same of the 194_04 one...no kinship with yours...

click to enlarge


These are the parameters of my xdf...do you see any difference with yours?
(F7 on Tunerpro)

click to enlarge

Re: xdf file for 16VT [Re: ] #1578604
27/06/2016 20:23
27/06/2016 20:23

D
deltaza
Unregistered
deltaza
Unregistered
D



Ok...none wants to waste time looking for errors in my xdf.
I understand.
It was not to ask for a correct xdf.

I really don't understand why my xdf doesn't read the correct values (the kj16v ones) of the 194_4 map.
TPS is ad 8DC0....and my values are wrong!
duty cycle map at 8DD0...and my values are wrong!
Why? It makes me mad!

None could share his correct xdf with me? :-(
A xdf which shows the values of kj16v?

Please!

Last edited by deltaza; 27/06/2016 20:25.
Re: xdf file for 16VT [Re: ] #1579374
07/07/2016 07:22
07/07/2016 07:22

P
PhoB
Unregistered
PhoB
Unregistered
P



I just have a little moment to check your problem. I tested "3.1" xdf and one from tuner pro. On both i have values in dutycycle table(8DD0) in correct shape ( value 50 at maximum RPM and maximum TPS = top right). I dont know why you have them mirrored now. But you have them twisted completely first time => so you must change something => try to change it more somehow or download untouched xdf file again.
TPS axis have just wrong conversion to % , otherwise its correct.
I assume you using lastest version of tunerproRT.

Re: xdf file for 16VT [Re: ] #1579504
07/07/2016 23:18
07/07/2016 23:18

D
deltaza
Unregistered
deltaza
Unregistered
D



Originally Posted By: PhoB
I just have a little moment to check your problem. I tested "3.1" xdf and one from tuner pro. On both i have values in dutycycle table(8DD0) in correct shape ( value 50 at maximum RPM and maximum TPS = top right). I dont know why you have them mirrored now. But you have them twisted completely first time => so you must change something => try to change it more somehow or download untouched xdf file again.
TPS axis have just wrong conversion to % , otherwise its correct.
I assume you using lastest version of tunerproRT.


Hi! Thanks
Finally a guy on an other forum, in Italy, gave me another xdf. But unfortunately it is the same! As you can see now the values are correct, as inside numbers, but always in the wrong way! The opposite of rpms you have. With the higher value of 50 at low rpms!
I don't know why! Because I've got the last version of Tunerpro...the n. 5.00.8853.
Maybe there is a function in Tunerpro to change...but which? Not obviously the direction of raw and colums in preferences...
I'm going mad...

click to enlarge


Last edited by deltaza; 07/07/2016 23:18.
Re: xdf file for 16VT [Re: ] #1579542
08/07/2016 10:28
08/07/2016 10:28

P
PhoB
Unregistered
PhoB
Unregistered
P



I tried to change XDF settings trial&error to twist values in maps, but no luck about it. But you probably tried the same.

Re: xdf file for 16VT [Re: ] #1579589
08/07/2016 19:54
08/07/2016 19:54

D
deltaza
Unregistered
deltaza
Unregistered
D



Originally Posted By: PhoB
I tried to change XDF settings trial&error to twist values in maps, but no luck about it. But you probably tried the same.


No...I'm sorry... I don't know which settings are you talking about...

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