Resurrection - 61,000m Broomy 20vt: Discussion

Comments welcome!

Well done on saving this coupe!
A great way to save a coupe by 4 of you to chipping in with it.
I saved a Scottie turbo earlier this year and it can be quite a task!

There I feel a lot more confident about this already!

The boot looks amazingly clean Simon.

Amongst all the work that is required some salvation was the lack of road dirt and salt being thrown up at it year after year, so yes it's quite clean!


Edit: transferred this

Good luck with all. I'm happy to donate parts if I have them. Just give me a shout.

That's most generous Joe, cheers mate

Hats off to all of you for taking this on!

Like you - the sort of project I would love to take on and I've been tempted a couple of times recently in to taking on coups that are unloved but could be saved.

I am sure this adventure is going to be well followed by those of us with perhaps less polished coupe saving skills then the expert members on the forum.

Also - something to be said for group efforts to save coupes? The costs can be staggeringly high sometimes - far higher then Porsche in many instances....

Anyhow - good luck and looking forward to your instalments- her future looks brighter!

MM

Are you doing all the work outside Simon? Fair play on that one.

Indeed Jim, but when the engine comes out it'll go at the back of a lockup...

Would it be worth investing in a pop up tent type thing that you see at track days etc?

Joh Snow says Winter is coming. You better get a shift on Ed...

We did think about this tbh - when the engine is out it will be in a lockup at least

I've an engine crane you're welcome to borrow if you want Simon. Maybe a bit far away and a bit much hassle getting it to you?

What are you planning to do that justifies removing the engine anyway?

That's very generous Matt Would have to consider courier cost.....

An option is to buy one new then resell it.

Pow-wow tomorrow night, so another item for the agenda!

Belts, tensioners, water pump, clutch - and just have some room to spring it into life after 14 years....

Also makes access to the bay and underneath easier for rust treatment. Although not as bad as it could have been, it means the job's done more thoroughly.

Hmmm... I've just done all that (and radiator, aircon pipe, cv joints) with "engine in" and would do it the same way again if I had to. Actually after all the fuss about the cambelt change for the last 20 years I have to say I'd rather do that again than the clutch.

There's a lot of additional work in removing all the connectors, wiring loom, fuel lines, hoses etc. to completely remove the engine, not to mention the fun of maneuvering it out of the bay + you'll need an engine stand and hoist.

Of course if you can get the engine/gearbox out of the car in the next month while the weather holds up and then get it indoors to play with over the winter then that would be entirely sensible.

That radiator and the radiator support bracket look awful!
Where did the two springs come from that are in this pic -->

From the rear brakes?

Yep, totally shot after 14 years out in the open, unused!

Oh sorry, they popped in to the pic by mistake, getting de-crudded at the same time!

Think the springs are from the rear calipers, yeah.

Remember to save the rubber top mounts from the radiator before you bin it.

Yes they definitely are.

All the bolts and fittings including the rubber discs from the rad have been saved and bagged, as have any other parts.....in months' time we could be scratching our heads wondering where they went!

Interesting project you have there Simon!
Good to see you have been able to post pics - whats the secret post photobucket?

I've gone onto Tinypic Mark - although it's something (perhaps deliberately) of a misnomer as the results come out rather large....

Four of us are involved and each one brings something different, but equally valuable, to the project, sometimes as part of a whole team or in pairs or even singly, whenever the time is right

Joe filled me in with some of the background when I popped in today to FCSS for a pre-Zurich trip inspection.
Sounds like a good idea as a shared project - I hope it goes well and is perhaps an inspiration to others.

Great start chaps, I must admit my under rad looks about the same however my front panel looks as bad as my under rad panel.

Have you got yourselves an engine hoist and maybe an engine stand? I'm curious about how the engine removal goes, are you still planning to take it out?

Will watch your progress with interest as its very similar to my own project, i'm sure we can share some war stories on the way !!!

Tbh it's very much in hibernation at the moment, seeing as ours is outside (though with a cover) and it's far too cold!

But imagine a couple of phoenix-like identically-mileaged broomies emerging at some unknown point in the future.....

Actually I've just reacquainted myself with your first-ever post - several answers contained therein!

Haven't set myself a target yet for when i want to have her finished however first major milestone with changing the belt and getting her fired up

Second the idea of a pop up tent or gazebo the lock up i use is only good for storage, i can't effectively work in there so have the car on wheel dollys and use a pop up gazebo to allow myself to keep working in the fine scottish weather.

A couple of things I've come across so far or hints to give. Soak everything in penetrating oil and i mean everything, front calliper bolts were a particular pita and took me ages to remove as i was conscious of shearing the bolt ( had this happen before and it was a nightmare to drill out).

Brake pipes - buy a kit and practice making them saved me so much hassle as I've broken every pipe so far from calliper to flexi

Ive also accumulated quite a few spares from a ex track sprint i broke that blew its bottom end so if there is anything obscure your looking let me know as i may have it lying in the shed

Well done for getting the belts fixed - that's something for later when the engine's out and makes everything more accessible.

Everything within reach has been smothered in penetration oil right enough.

That's a very kind offer re parts - may well be in touch

I take my hat off to you chaps. Looking like it's coming on quite well.It's one thing working on a car in the comforts of a well stocked roomy garage, as you lads know it's quite another kettle of fish when you're working in outdoor conditions that are far from ideal. Sterling work....

cheers Jim!

Good effort guys - keep it up.
The future's bright , the future's yellow!

From a porty owner that's praise indeed Mark

Good progress to say the least, 10/10 for effort keep it up bud.

Cheers, Dan...

More great work there Dante - I'm sure it's very satisfying to see it all coming back together

I remember Joe saying he used something called POR10 for the underside.

Think that should be POR15.

I think the question was asked in relation to the new brake pipes, what to coat them in for protection. Given that the new pipes are copper, they won't rust like the OE steel items, or at least the uncoated parts of the OE pipes next to the unions. AFAIK the OE pipes are coated in PVF (polyvinylfluoride). The problem with the replacement pipes will be to keep the steel unions free of corrosion.

I've never used it, but POR15 is a rust prevention coating designed to be applied to rusty or "seasoned" surfaces (like the subframe and trailing arm for example) and for new brake pipes a "metal prep" coating is needed, which seems like a lot of faffing around to me.

Your new pipes will probably be loose in the clips too.
I tried POR15 on cupronickel and it doesn`t key to the surface so you will either need to use primer/topcoat or bitumen based product. Or heatshrink.

Yeah, I'm thinking heat shrink too, seen a forum where someone was recommending 6mm size, larger sizes might not shrink down enough, or create too thick a coating. And it doesn't matter so much if it gets damaged since the copper or cupronickel underneath won't rust - it's more for show than anything. But with heat shrink, does it only shrink radially (6mm diameter down to 3mm for example) or also longitudinally, so that a 12" length might end up at 10"?

6mm would be great if slipped on before any flares are made. Lengths don`t get shorter, but I often use several overlapping sections anyway where it is hard to fit a single length due to bends.
If a 12mm 3:1 will fit over the ferrule the resulting diameter will be good and the shrink shouldn`t be loose, or a larger and higher ratio in glue-shrink but will be a fatter pipe...I will be doing some tests.
My original pipes seem to have overlaps in the plastic coat and are in good condition except where they have been bent at some point.
I`ve been using heatshrink-online as a supplier.

I used standard 12mm 3:1 for the swing arm pipes. Not quite as tough as the original but the pipes don`t need protecting.
Diameter is close match but not snug in the clips, i`m thinking I must have cleaned some waxy gunk from the pipes/clips as i`m sure they were tight when removed. Looks fairly original but I think the cheap unions I used will corrode must faster than the genuine sort as there is vast difference in the quality of the finish.

12mm 3:1 looks like a good call, thanks, I will try that. I bought some brass unions and will try them instead of steel ones. Unfortunately my school chemistry is not good enough to tell me if brass + cunifer + steel parts all together is going to give a problem or not, but it's likely that the net 20 years will see the Coupes run less miles and mostly in nice weather, so they should last longer than OE.

I just covered a part finished pipe with 9mm 3:1 as I didn`t have 6mm to hand. The result makes the ones I did before look awful as they have some wrinkles at the bends.
Next time i`ll use 2 lengths of 6mm with an overlap.
I didn`t see any brass fittings while shopping. I thought there were black fittings for cunifer but I didn`t find them yet.

Well done guys.
Keep it going team!

Excellent effort chaps!

A lesson to what tag-team restoration in the great Scottish outdoors can achieve!

Your bringing her back to life week by week - I hope the weather holds as long as possible before winter sets in and slows work.

Top Job!

MM

It’s certainly coming along

Can’t believe you towed it out using your own pride and joy
Simon

That’s full on dedication there!

There's something I just lerv about that towing eye

Tbh it was a little lighter with various bits taken off and all the upholstery removed....

Nice one Simon!

The discs don`t look too bad at least.

Good effort getting that collar off I must tackle mine.
Handy to see some pictures of how the car is supposed to look like with crash foam in place, both air ducts and intact slam panel.

Track rod end boot is split in that last pic.

Spot-on Graham - thanks to your whizzo wishbone removal tool we were able to wheech it off and replace it recently along with the pinchbolt.

Just a bit behind with keeping the thread up-to-date!

Great job on the n/s/f caliper, and thank goodness for miracles!

In the last pic there looks to be a chunk missing from the OE pipe to caliper, or is it just the plastic coating? Is the pipe underneath OK?

Have you got any pics of the calipers before you started? Just curious to see what state the guides and bolts were in before the miracle?

Also is there a piece of wheel arch liner/gearbox end cover missing? The rubber "ring" around the brake hose looks like it might get cut to shreds by the rough edge of the bodywork there.

yes- we certainly removed that piece of gearbox 'trim' / wheel arch liner, quite recently in fact.

Simon was holding it last night!

Not sure how you are seeing that brake line, Dave.
Although the brackets securing the lines to the strut and inner-arch mount are absent in that shot; it should should show the hard-line join to the brake-flexible, then 'join' (pipe has no union on it) to another short hardline, which is actually screwed into the rear of the caliper.

we just knocked that short brake line up (with a union only on one end) to get a size for a couple to be remade for us.

I'm sure Ive got some earlier Brembo footage somewhere...

However- Further to your request for footage on guides, 'before' a scratch-up with the 600-grit paper...

See the 2nd to last email on the project-thread, of 11:43 on the 7th, which shows the guides laid out on a black background, in their raw state.
The following shot of them on the anvil, is 'afterwards'...

In this pic look where the screwdriver at the top passes behind the brake pipe: just below that "intersection" there appears to be a chunk missing out of the pipe?


I meant before that even, what did the guide screws look like before the miracle work was done?

Dave, the pic happens to have caught a "dummy" piece of old pipe that's been bent into shape as a template for new ones each side

These were done "while we waited" on Saturday morning and are now wrapped and ready

I get it now, thanks

If it were me doing this sort of resurrection I would take out the carpet, and check under all the sound deadening stuff. It's a bit of a faff to remove, the worst bit I had was the bolt holding the round pad under the gas pedal not wanting to come out, plus a sneaky hidden screw on the foot rest, then when you remove the sound deadening stuff, the bitumen bit on top will likely split and the fluff stuff underneath may decide to stick to both the floor and the bitumen, leading to some sort of replacement being necessary (or just shove it all back as best you can) plus you need somewhere to put the monstrous one-piece carpet...

Indeed Dave the carpet was lifted some time ago and the floor inspected, the obstacles you describe all encountered and negotiated. There is still sound-deadening to "get out of the way" for when welding to the front wheel arches/front footwell area takes place, to avoid fire risk.

That should be a straightforward fix, that isn’t massively expensive

Cheers Jamie

Great that you’ve found the compression leak.
Why do you think the valves failed? Weak mixture caused by a duff injector or inlet gasket leak?
Are you going to test the other cylinder valves too?
Exciting stuff

The other cylinders are outputting close enough to 150 each so in theory we won't need to do much - our mate will no doubt take the opportunity to clean up anything he spots.

Cause? Difficult to say, but considering the scenario of its past (for the sake of those that can't be bothered to trawl through here, it was 13 years under a bush then 18 months in PJM's driveway until we took it on.

It had belonged to the couple's son until, we understand, he parked it up underneath this large bush in their garden and then detoured into a Porsche which his folks gave him

My feeling is he probably ragged it and pot 5 didn't take kindly to it.

I never bother removing the water rail bleed point, they're always seized for a start as you've discovered and secondly that point is high enough any trapped air gets pushed through to bleed back to the expansion bottle.

Hi Simon
How are getting on with the cam caps?
Did you figure out if they are all numbered the same on every engine?
Frazer

From the comparison of three, carmine's, yours and ours they were all different...

As you might expect from a CH skimmer/refurbishing company they had marked the inlet side 1-5 and the exhaust side similarly (though not initially noticed as it was quite discreet) so we are satisfied they are in the same order as when we dissembled it.

However there is a slight suspicion someone has been in there at an unknown stage in the past as some of the head bolts were little more than hand-tight; this was enough cause for concern that cam caps "might" not have been replaced correctly.

As mentioned above there could be related wear particular to each one which justifies keeping each one in the same position, but it's beyond our means to measure how much that wear has been over its 61.000 mile history.

Thanks both of you for the photos anyway which added to the knowledge-base

Sounds like a pretty good outcome though. Still a little hit and miss, but given the circumstances I think that you are good.

If it were me, I would fit 2 x caps to one cam and rotate it. If it feels OK then proceed to the next cap and so on. That would give you some piece of mind at least.

Yeah, our mobile/mate/mechanic seems to have a 'feel' for this and is happy with the re-installation so far (albeit with a couple of steps back as per our 61k project thread )