Surrey RR - results, pics and a vid!

20VT with GTEC1, GTiR hybrid (0.8 bar actuator), S/S Decat, PA FMIC, Fuel wiring mod (standard pump), Greddy EBC

I am hoping for around 270-280 at around 1.3bar

270-275bhp

Fingers and toes crossed

Ben

I think higher. Possibly 285-290. Depends how well the gtech1 suits your setup.

Ross

I had all that, and a s1 ported head, and managed 282bhp @ 1.25bar

Chrissy

Results are in and are roughly where predicted

Max power bang on 6000 revs, crossover at 5250:
274bhp & 261 ft/lbs

Nice and steady boost slope, red lines at 1.05 bar:
Boost curve

Bit lean in the mid-range, time for a walbro and GTEC2??:
Air Fuel mix

225bhp At the wheels

Not bad considering it was a muggy 24 degrees ambient temperature with charge temps around 36 degrees He did get a 277bhp result but the graph wasn't as nice.

Not much back pressure then!

36 charge temps is ok.

Im concerned about why the power is comming in so late. I think your intercooler/routing is stopping your spool up.

Midrange afr isnt bad, although the 12.3/12.4 section isnt ideal.

Your afr on spool up is good at 13ish, but there is just no torque available till 3500+.

Boost is tailing away but thats probably the turbo thats preventing more boost? Differnt turbo would allow more top end. Or a visit to PT.

Change the route or change intercooler in my opinion.

Ross

p.s. well done btw. Gtech2 is probably the way forward with more boost and walbro.

Well done Webbo , almost as predicted

Like Ross said the AFR in the midrange is'nt ideal.
Maybe chaging to a Gtech2+Walbro should get the AFR into the mid to high 11's

which is better than 12.3/4

Ben

Cheers chaps. The AFR and torque do look a little low so hopefully a bit more fuel might help that. Its nice to know things aren't too far out though

Would you consider changing the intercooler route or the intercooler?

Ross

So why should he ditch a perfectly good Pro Alloy FMIC when it's been proven over and over again?

I only just fitted the PA FMIC and I checked the pipework (Mark_K also helped) and we eliminated any kinks or distortions as best as possible. I dont think that is the cause of the low torque / late power dont know what else it could be though! ?

What is your torque@wheel figure? 216 ft/lbs?

Why change IC? PA is one of the best

To be honest, its the exhaust or the fuelling or the intercooler.

Fuelling looks fine for spool up.

Stnd downpipe? What is the rest of the exhaust?

The pace has been described as laggy. Is it a double pass?

Ross

p.s. PA - thought it was pace.... doh!!! Idiot... Must be exhaust then.

Standard downpipe, rest of exhaust is a peco with supersprint decat pipe. There definitely isn't much back pressure as can be seen by the video and the sound it makes, I wonder if thats why the torque is low


yep Freddan, 216ft/lbs at wheels

Nope. That wouldnt cause it. On an N/A car yes it could be the reason.

You could just need the gtech 2. Maybe should just swap that over and see the difference.

Ross

What are your settings on the GReddy?

PM sent to Graham-L and a walbro on order

Ooh, IIRC Greddy settings are something like 0.50 , 17% and around 1.15 on start, does that sound right?

Don´t buy a Walbro yet. Have you done the "Rewiring of the fuel pump" thingy?

Haha Can´t see everything, right h2ypr?

Lol.

Ross

yep. i don't think you need a walbro either as your fuelling at the top is OK.

edit: maybe you've got a boost leak or a dodgy actuator

I doubt it is the actuator as it is a 0.8 bar one that was new with the turbo about 6 months ago. Boost leak is possible I guess but then surely it wouldn't hold 1 bar at redline if that was the case? Oh I dont know, I'll fit the GTEC2 and see how it feels!

hmmn ... i'd try to sort out the slow spool up first!

I would love to just don't know how! The SIP (fitted) should be good for spooling although following my brother today it was noticeably slower to get going

I just thought! Would an exhaust leak do it? I remember it was an advisory on my MOT last week! must be a loose connection somewhere.

Exhaust leak would help spool up.

It could be the lack of ignition advance low down. Gtech2 has ignition advance low down. This will help with spool up.

Try the gtech2 first.

Ross

I run less ignition advance than a GTEC1, have a bigger turbo and still spool up way sooner

How come they did it in 3rd gear(according to the graph), it's normally 4th isn't it?! Would that make any difference at all?!

Mark

Dunno, I asked him what gear he did it in and he said on the Dyno Dynamics rollers you do it in third. Not sure what if any difference this would make though?

Most people use either 3rd or 4th - the dyno is calibrated accordingly so should make no difference.

Boost will come in later in a lower gear but you will get a higher wheel power reading too. Most DD rollers only measure the wheel power and then add a transmission loss for the flywheel power, this is not the same as a coastdown calculation.

This has also been proven at G-Force a few years ago. JohnS asked for a power run to be down in 4th and the operator said it made no difference, so did a run in 3rd and a run in 4th, both results in the same power (1bhp here or there)

It can depend on the type of Dyno being used as to whether 3rd or 4th is used. On the Dyno Dynamics Dynomometer which was used here then this rr is calibrated to a max of around 150mph, if the car is ran in a gear that could exceed this then the results become exagerrated (I proved this in the Cerb). For the Fiat Coupe 20VT then running in 3rd and 4th shouldn't make that much difference. The other important thing to remember is that the ideal is for peak power to occur at between 100-115mph for accuracy. I ran my 335d on a Dyno Dynamics last night in the same setting as used for the Coupe in this thread (Shoot 6F), but mine was run in 4th as it is a six speed auto / tiptronic / flappy paddle type box.

Jules.