Suspension

Finally got round to the start of refreshing my suspension.
My car pulls to the left. Sometimes it feels a little floatey and occasionally following the contours of the road surface, more than I 'think' it should. Have had the front right dip, once on hard acceleration and again on hard braking. 
The front right front tyre has the inner edge wear. 
When I bought the car I had the front springs changed as one had cracked to get through the week after purchase, MOT. Front shocks were also replaced, well 'shock' (passenger side) as I have just found out through starting this exercise. Not sure what happened with that...? So, answers some questions. 
So presently. I had the tracking done but, it did not sort it out and the steering wheel ended ended up at 2 o'clock rather than the 1 o' clock .
Thought I would start with the wishbones. After reading up on many posts of info here, I decided to stay with standard wishbones, drop links and track rod ends. 
Nearly bought some poly bushed wishbones but decided against it as well as not putting the poly drop link group buy bushes.  
Bought from AA and delivered within 24 hours, always good service from them.  Bought new set of bolts from Fiat £38 mark.
Followed Barnacles very straightforeward guide for reference to change the wishbones etc  It was useful to have an air impact gun to free the bolts from the sub frame. The job went fine, as per 'how to' it is a little fiddly to get the holes lined up when fitting new wishbone. The use of various clamps and bars to wiggle and pursuade was needed. On these jobs you are always up against the tight or seized bolt! making the job so much longer. Only thing I didn't use was Barnacles knees which would of been useful. Thanks for the 'how to'!
So now they are on, need to have the tracking done. Although the  steering wheel is pretty much square and the drive feels tighter its  still pulling especially if I accelerate and lift off quick. 
Was splitting this job into three starting with the wishbones, it was then going to be front shocks and top mounts (again will just go standard route, no way can I think about lowering the car) then rear radius. 
I did check the rear not so long ago for play, but now there is some movement in the passenger side, so that could account for the unsuccessful tracking. 
Reading the 'how to' for the radius arm it looks it bit more complicated and some pics are missing. I find pics very useful to follow.  Not looking foreward too much to start this but needs doing. 
Any advice, tips or photos would be appreciated to make life easier.  This now might not happen until  after New Year, finding the time isn't easy sometimes. And I know how ever long you think you might take, double it!
Cheers!

triple it

I'll be watching this with interest as I'm stockpiling bits for my own suspension refresh. Mine is purely down to wear and tear - no real issues at the moment but I'm sure the garage will find something!

Interesting that you've gone for standard bits rather than uprated which is what I've done;

Standard wishbones
Standard droplinks
Standard TRE's
Standard springs (rears still needed)
Standard Topmounts (offside still needed)
Bilstein Shocks
Eibech camber bolts

Hoping to have most of this stuff fitted along with a service this coming weekend or early in the New Year followed by 4 wheel alignment.

I'll be interested to see how yours "feels" on the road once you've got it sorted.

I have some for sale if you're still looking - PM me

Another thing worth looking at are the rear subframe bushes. Mine are totally shot and need replacing. Joe has some images in his traders page if you need a comparison.

One final note is the use of the standard drop link bushes. I've had my car 4 years and have found the OE items to need replacing annually. Even Fiat ones perish within that time frame. This is why I've moved to the PU ones from the group buy page.

Been having a bit more read and a think. Do I get these as talked about here as, standard springs,shocks, top mounts comes in at a little over £500.

I'd give Begbie a week or so to write a review on the BC coilovers, they could be the suspension the coupe has been waiting for?

It would be good to hear some feedback!
I wasn't specifically looking at this type of set up as per post. It's only now that I have tuned in to the 'new make of coilover' thread and now I realise there is a group buy being set up for same, or should I panic buy as the prices are going way up after tomorrow?

well i had a short ride in begbie's car and the initial impressions are good, we were on some typically bumpy english roads and the damping was very good even on the low settings there is enough rebound so it did not float in dips making the ride as good as your going to get from coilovers with 330lb springs. i have no doubt that this is now the best handling option for the price at the moment.

it will be to "hardcore" for some but perfect if you want to do the odd trackday and be acceptable on the road, it will be quite different from a refreshed std setup, so you need to decide what you want from the car?

Also having possible suspension issues, wandering on bumpy/rutted roads and floaty feeling when slowing down from speeds. What sort of prices would i be looking at (ball park) for a suspension refresh?

Wishbones, drop links and track rod ends receipt I have from Alternative Autos is £228.78 including delivery.
The bolts from Fiat about £40
From my previous post a little over £500 for springs etc

Paid near £700 for the coilovers and rear radius kit.

I don't want to add it up in one lump. Looks better spaced out. Labour you need to add on top if you getting a proper mechanic, I'm doing it myself.

Put this lot on and has already made the world of difference.!
Now got this lot to put on when I find the time.

I renewed a shed load of suspension. New Fiat wishbones, new top mounts, put the full Powerflex PU bushes into the wishbones and drop links. Forget the Fiat drop links.... It is on a good set an annual renewal. I had a shot track rod end which was not helping the track of the car.
I am experiencing the same issue of wheel at 2 o clock, while driving forward, car also pulls to the left.... Both things are annoying me.
I have to change out all wheels (this weekend) as the Irish roads have buckled all 4. This may not be helping the scenario. Something as small as tyre pressure seems to cause issues. The sensation on the steering wheel of the car being turned the road surface is felt with ye feedback of same.

I'd be glad of any other suggestions.... Rear suspension has to be inspected, was wondering was it the LSD?

Aido

Finally started the rear radius arm today.



Compare these two pics. The amount of movement was hardly noticable if you were to check the wheel for play, but there was some. And the first pic illustrates the huge amount of difference it makes. The drivers side is solid, zero play.

This is how the dust seal looked.
And this is what was left of the bearing after I knocked it out from the opposite end cleanly! The other bearing was still intact and greased. This end, well as you can see was a little dry!
 
Should make some difference once it all goes back.
Tracking, it was never going to be right.

Yes that's definitely rubbered!

Fitted rears first. Unless I fitted them wrong? bit odd the way the spring fits onto the adjustable cup. Not until the car is lowered does it seat properly. Other than that it was a straight fit. Had it on five clicks in from soft to hard. Drove the short distance home that night , and it was extremely bouncy.
Fitted fronts without any issues. Messed about quite alot with the ride height. Out of the box it's way too low. I raised it and still couldn't get out of the estate. So got it levelled out now to normal ride hieght (or it matching the figures I took before removing old setup)
So standard ride height, I also fitted Nigel's lower brace. Ten clicks on the front and fifteen on the back stopped the bounce altogether. Early days but feels good at the moment. What I did notice was the easy turn of the steering wheel when I first moved the car at low speed.
With all the saggy/aged bits replaced now, be interesting to have a good few miles drive over the next few days.

Are those the BC coilovers? Looking very good, going to be a while before i can afford to do the same

Yes they are James.
Link for reference

Thanks, bookmarked the links for when i've paid off HMRC!

I found the same on the rears and also said this when I did my little review on it. My understanding is, that you're never going to have the car high enough for them to pop out and there is always some weight on the rear to keep the springs in place.
I have mine on 5 clicks on front and back and I don't have any bouncing issues. I'm still yet to turn them up, which I might do this weekend just to see the difference.

If the springs dislodge when the suspension is on full droop, i.e. jacked up, it will fail the MOT !!

The rear damper should be short enough to prevent that from happening. I had to get Leda to fit a sleeve inside my rears to stop just this after mine failed an MOT on loose rear springs.

Jim, the rear damper is height adjustable, this means you can control max droop with it to keep the spring on its base.

I would recommend putting as many of the OE rubber seat protection items back on as you can, I'm hoping BC are now supplying a plastic washer as a spring base, but can't see it in the pic. If they aren't they need reminding.

It was reading your review Begbie that I started on five clicks, but I was getting a second bounce. Also, you mentioning how you were not happy about the way the spring sat, when I experienced the same I thought 'that must be what he was referring to!'
Before turning up to a firmer setting on the rear I did try and adjust the length of the damper, jacking up the arm to take the weight but I couldn't get the ring to budge. Especially with the petrol tank side you can only put your hand up there. I think unless someone knows better that they may have to be removed to alter the length?
Maybe they could just be undone from the arm end to adjust.

No washer.

Same as Jim, my AST's needs a shim to stop the droop - personally I think they should have made them a lot shorter.

Begbie there wont be weight on the spring if you go round a corner on 3 wheels which is normal for a FWD being driven hard - I know you're a bit soft though

Thought I would take another look at how the rear springs fitted.

Although being a novice, my conclusion is the springs are too short to fit the Coupe.

The damper. Yes, the dampers body is adjustable but I thought it was not the job of the damper to ‘retain’ (arm droop) the spring in place by being shorter although, it would do this if it was possible to shorten the damper body enough which you can’t! I did shorten it in situ but only by a couple of mm’s. I decided to take the damper off the car to see better the travel and if I had missed something obvious. The damper can extend a hell of a lot but, at its shortest length it’s still woefully too long to stop the ‘droop’.

The spring. In my pics of the springs and damper you can see how much shorter the BC spring is with cup. I know this is irrelevant when off the car, but is a lot shorter if you think when removing a normal spring you need to use clamps. The BC are also one coil shorter than the D2 ones, which is about the measurement in my opinion it needs, one more coil. I am talking about physical differences/lengths and not spring rates etc.

I explained on the phone to Eddie at AE, he is hopefully going to ask BC for info.

Bit of a shame if I have to put my normal springs on to get through the MOT in a months time!

Anyone have any ideas or can point out the blindingly obvious and make me look stupid would be greatly appreciated.

Pic of how it sits when car is jacked up.
Spring ref.
D2 spring on Johnny20vt thread.

Following a phone conversation/s this morning, the spring fitment is how it is. Anyone who has fitted the kit or who will in future feedback would be appreciated by the seller and myself.

As the original lower rubber rings raised wall does not fit inside the threaded BC threaded cup, it suddenly became obvious to me that the solution would be to cut the wall flush and the threaded cup would sit on this. By using the same sized ring, the same could be done for the spring to sit on the top of the cup.

I am googling for poly suitable alternatives. Anyone who can give me a heads up on this and who the person was on here who was involved in poly bush manufacture, I would be grateful.

Just found him, its Ferrarist. Unless someone knows of another. Ta

I've run the FK rear spring platform which is identical to this for around 5 years, there is no need for a lower rubber spring base, it's fine just sitting on the collar.

In its present state though, that will fail an MOT!

You will need to shorted the rear damper to prevent the spring lifting off the lower platform.

Point taken Jimbo if you have had no problems, I would prefer not to have metal on metal where there is movement.
The damper is at its shortest length!!! in the pic.
This is my point, the dampers shortest length is the same as original parts and does not retain the droop of the spring if that is what some peoples solution is.
Therefore mismatched parts at the least.
For the MOT Ill have to attach a bungee to kill the droop?

Is there any good pic's of the lower part of the coilover, and how it is attached to the rear arm?
Sorry if i sound silly, not familiar with the rear Coupe coilovers.....

If that's the damper at it's shortest then there is an issue with the damper that needs to be resolved or all coupes running them will fail MOTs !

I'd bring this up with the supplier ASAP.

Its not strictly true, but we are looking into it.

If the spring cannot come out of its location its not a fail. as the top is held in, and the bottom sits back down it isn't necessarily a fail. However it does come down to individual testers and the interpretation of the grey area rules. Of course we would like to remove any greyness and are looking at it, so please don't take this as a shrug off.

However what you have stated is wrong.

I think it came under the heading of "all components must be secure" and with the spring loose on it's mountings either at the bottom or at the top if you pulled the spring down, they failed it on this.
The options were to add another helper coil to the spring or to fit a sleeve in the damper to prevent full droop. The latter being the cheaper option.

The easiest way to resolve will it/won't it pass? would be to talk to a MOT tester, which I have just this minute done!

I showed him the pics and explained, and the answer is very borderline/possibly/mmmm not too sure it's abit close to call 50/50... you get my drift? So still grey. This is one of those places that will replace a bulb for you rather than fail, but in no way shadey! The guy I talked to was the actual tester, but would look to his boss (who wasn't there at the time) to call it.

Saying that, it would be better to drive to any station where the most scrupulous of tester resides and be confident that it will not be failed on the spring issue.

You did say this was without the wheels fitted, the extra wheel weight will make it droop a little further.


I'm not trying to pick holes in this new kit, far from it, I'll be buying one!! I just want to make sure the kit covers all the bases, I've been down the road of developing suspension for the coupé working with Leda so I'm aware of the silly little things that catch you out, just like this.

the gaz kit has a spring with a softer 190lb section that acts like a helper.

Is it possible to get pictures of how the kits with "fix's" look?

Thanks

The rear spring is wound progressively with the top few coils having little poundage and under load will sit coil bound but they allow the spring to keep seated when on full droop.

Having looked into this the damper is as short of physically possible while maintaining adequate travel.
As long as the spring cant dislocate the MOT should be a pass, as the spring not able to fall out due to the overlap with the centre of the adjusting unit. However if MOT testers do raise it an an issue you can always adjust the rear ride-height upwards to maintain complete spring hold.

Today I had my MOT which resulted in these failing without any doubts. The tester went as far as he deemed them to be dangerous!
So, now I have the result that these are indeed unusable/unsuitable for the Coupe and for meeting the MOT standards!
I have mailed the companies concerned and will not say more at the moment as it's only fair to hear their replies and thoughts on how to resolve this.

I am talking about the rear damper/spring situation not the fronts.

I was planning to buy a set from BC. But when I see this thread, I start to wonder if I shall buy a set . I hope BC realize that this is a major issue and that they need to solved it as soon as possible.

Oh dear, I feared this may happen!

SM_SXOC as a temporary solution until you come up with a fix, you could post out a pair of rear spring platforms, these can be fitted over the bottom coil of the rear spring with the rear spring in place and basically will sandwich the spring between the normal lower spring platform and the one fitted above the bottom coil of the spring to prevent it lifting.

This does work as we did it to get my car through an MOT but there does need to be a more permanent fix developed such as an extra helper coil to the spring.

A quick update: another set of springs is going to be made within two weeks for the customer to test.

Excellent news

Good news but will everyone that bought the kit get a pair of new rear springs??

how many people have bought this kit? as I haven't heard many reviews

I have the kit but not driven the car with them fitted, still no engine in the car! Fronts went on well and was impressed but I can see why people are less than pleased with the rears.

Well now Duncan has added his opinion, thats four including me I know of.
Anyone else out there?
pm me.