20VT Plus

Hello peeps,

I'm considering buying a 2000 Turbo Plus in Broom Yellow with the factory sunroof (muchos importante for me). It's done 200,000 miles in the hands of a forum member who I can't name. It's at Autosportivo in Bedford and it appears to be a pukka car. Massive service history, looks immaculate and I'm in love.
Apparently it needs nothing and has been a featured car on the Front Cover of Auto Italia magazine. Am I crazy to be considering it and how much should I pay?
All thoughts welcomed
Alan

If I was going to view a 200k mile Coupe there are a number of questions I'd ask and a list of checks that would need ticking for me to be confident with parting with my money, at that mileage it would frighten 99% of people away as the majority of potential buyers looking to come in or back to the fold are always seeking out low mileage examples so they wouldn't consider this and probably wouldn't even bother viewing, the only difference here is it's a Yellow Plus which as you've learned are rare.

My questions would be:

Has any rust been repaired underneath and if so are there any pictures to show it was done correctly.
Is the underside covered in underseal.
Do the subframes look rusty, rear trailing arms etc.
What new components have been fitted in the past 5yrs, ie suspension, brakes etc.
Has the 6sp gearbox been rebuilt in its lifetime.
Is it the original engine.
What is the engine compression test results, leak down test would also be useful.
What's the oil pressure hot and cold, and has the engine ever been repaired.
What's the condition of the coolant system, hoses and a/c condenser and pipework.
Basic one, are all the keys present and work, code card, working key fobs.
Does the service history make sense, stamped book would be full at 200k.
Are quality branded tyres fitted, that says a lot about the previous owner.
Does it look rolled in glitter!

Price wise these days a Coupe is only worth what someone is willing to pay, what's the price tag Alan?

Hi Montydog,

Off topic a little (apologies), but did you give up on W159 SBD on Autotrader? Before I got my 20vt I did consider this one so I am wondering what the issues with the car were. Just being nosey :-)

Good luck in your search for a Broom Yellow car. They do look the dog's gonads in yellow to be sure.

Hi, no I haven't given up on W159 SBD. I put a deposit on it a couple of weeks ago and I was waiting for it to come off SORN and get a new MOT which it passed today. I'm test driving it on Saturday. It's between that one and another broom yellow Plus with the oh so important to me factory sunroof which I'm looking at on Monday. If I don't buy W159 SBD, I would be very happy to give you my thoughts on it if that would be helpful.

Hi and thanks for the extensive and detailed advice on what to look for on the high mileage coupe. It is a long story with this car. It was owned by a forum member and has featured on the front cover of AutoItalia magazine.The registration number is S20 VTS - does that ring any bells with you? If you go to the Autosportivo website and scroll through the list of short videos, you will see it with the magazine briefly featured. Apparently it is a very well known car in forum circles. I'm going to look at it on Monday and I'll bear your advice in mind. An Australian saw that short video and bought the car intending to import it to Australia. He was incredibly determined to have it as he would have to wait until May 2025 for it to be eligible for import. On top of that he would have shipping costs and import tariff to pay on top of 14 months of UK storage costs. He could clearly see that this quite a unique car with amazing provenance and wasn't going to be deflected. I have spent the last month trying to persuade him to sell it to me. We have just agreed a price which a bit daft but as you say - it's worth what someone is willing to pay. As far as I know, it's the only yellow Plus with the factory sunroof in the UK.
Thanks again for your help and any further thoughts would useful.

The registration doesn't show on my database but I do have a copy of Autoitalia with that vehicle on front page.

Now I've seen the reg I can see it was tested in August 2023 and passed with a list of advisories, corrosion being one so I'm going to assume it's pretty genuine underneath and untouched.

Advisory Notices

Offside front brake pipe corroded, covered in grease or other material (1.1.11 (c))
Offside front integral body structure is corroded but structural rigidity is not significantly reduced sill (6.1.1 (c) (i))
Oil leak, but not excessive (8.4.1 (a) (i))
Rear service brake low efficiency
Rear integral body structure is corroded but structural rigidity is not significantly reduced both side sills (6.1.1 (c) (i))
Rear suspension component corroded but not seriously weakened (5.3.3 (b) (i))

Excellent - I had checked that. The current reg no is different to the plate on the front cover which is W949 YKK. I've looked at the Plus register on here but it doesn't show up. He may well have been a club member.

Hi again,
Can you tell me the issue number of the magazine featuring the car please. Thanks.

Yes I've found it, issue 224 October 2014, used to belong to John Anastasio who's well known on here.

Another ULEZ victim I fear. We had John's Yellow Plus on the club stand at the NEC Lancaster Insurance Classic Show back in November 2018.

Hi, good luck with the viewing today. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on the car. I was thinking about this one before I got mine. It does look great.

Hi, I drove W159SBD this afternoon. It's a really good car, drives very well, no knocks, squeaks or rattles. Interior is mint. My only reservation is that it's had a mediocre respray and could do with a MOP session. If John Anastasio's old car isn't perfect, I'll be buying W159SBD.

I'm in the same town as the yellow plus you mention. The shade of yellow looked off to me. Also, if I recall it was overdue a cambelt change. I'm holding out for a sprint blue plus.

Good luck. There are very few Plus Coupes around. Put the word out on the various Facebook groups and contact specialists and tell them what you're looking for. The chances are that really good cars will sell under the radar and never make it to the usual used car sites.
M

I remember Serg1 buying this car; it was advertised on here and from Maidstone, Kent; it was used as a motorway daily driver to London and back daily by the previous owner and it had about circa 180K+ on it when sold to Serg1. It was sold for peanuts in the £00's due I guess to the galactic mileage and prices then....Serg1 then put some money into the car, but being a London car guess it has been outed courtesy of Khan's cash grab. I remember leaving Horsham Italian car event few year's ago, few of us with Serg1 heading back to M25 and opening mine up towards the motorway, he didn't follow, I guess the 200K on the lump playing on his mind

For a car which is looked after, serviced, and regularly used, 200k is hardly galactic... indeed, it's barely run in

Think about a thirty year old car - six or seven thousand miles a year? It's hardly heavy usage...

(I hate those journalists in the 'classic car' magazines who get so orgasmic over fifty year old Ferraris with only three thousand kilometers on the clock... it's for driving; bloody drive it!)

Neil

I have no idea what this car was up for but given their prices I am thinking a fair old wad so condition, history and mileage were/are all factors to consider especially if you see a Plus/LE as an 'investment', personally I see no real world advantage in purchasing a Plus or LE and never have, I would not pay a premium for such, but then my Coupe is a 'daily' (1500miles a year) not a Garage Queen; A 200K mile 'daily' is significant mileage to put on a Coupe, apart from running gear/engine we all know that the common rust issues cause the most problems/££££s, That said I am ignorant of service/maintenence of this example; it certainly looked nice when I had a quick look round it and belied the mileage upon it..

Hi Submariner,
Very useful information about the previous usage of my Coupe. I've been through the service history which reveals that the first owner put an average of 40,000 miles a year on the car for it's first 4 years and it was sold in mid 2004 with 167,800 miles. The next owner kept it for 9 years and sold it to Serg1 at 187,000. He owned it for 10 years until this February and put 5,000 miles on it. During his ownership, it was a front cover feature car on AutoItalia Magazine October 2014 edition.The car currently has 191,000 miles. The fact that my car has covered 88% of it's mileage on the motorway explains why it's still on it's original engine, gearbox and turbo with no rebuilds, It starts on the button, there is no smoke and it holds 2.5 bar at hot idle. I have just spent quite a lot of money having all the rust cut out underneath and new metal let in (not a huge amount but a lot of fiddly small bits) and having it rustproofed with Dinitrol wax in the box sections and Dinitrol underseal on the rest of the underpinnings. The car was resprayed and refurbished 10 years ago and looks great from 10 feet away but on closer inspection, their are a lot of small imperfections in the paint. I'm going to see how much can be machine polished out and whether I can justify respraying the worst bits (bonnet and boot). Overall, I am very pleased with the car as I don't think I would ever find another yellow plus with the essential-to-me factory sunroof. I intend to use my coupe sparingly but regularly throughout the year taking it to local Alfa club meets (I have two Alfas so it gets honorary admission!) and Italian car days locally.

Currently my coupe has 190k miles on it. Before I moved to Germany I had two Bravos, with a total of about 470k miles on them (and one of those written off in an accident with 260k). Neither of these had any bodywork or rust repair as far as I remember; the coupe has certainly had some, but it was a daily driver for many many years and lived outside for most of them.

I don't agree with the fashionable view that Fiats rust, any more than any other thirty year old car does... and to be honest, if the rust has been attended to, the other wearable parts are more likely to have been replaced on a high mileage car. Road salt will kill any car, of course...

There are of course utter dogs, badly treated and uncared-for, in any marque including the coupe.

Neil

Hello Monty

I'm pleased that you are enjoying your car, driving and looking at it.

If you have the money, then spend what you feel comfortable with.

Otherwise, drive it, and attend to issues as they arrive.

With the age and mileage, perfection is unlikely to be achievable .
If you have the time, do a little bit of work regularly, to keep the appearance up and the car running smoothly.

Best wishes

Paul

Thank you, Paul

Original Turbo!!!! That's longevity, mine is on 119K with the original turbo...I don't have any previous identified rust issues underneath (well had the rear boot seam done and front arch area behind both front wheels) nothing ever on MOT but looked yesterday and there are some missing patches of protector/surface rust appearing and lower sills need treating so Bilt Hamber or Lanshield/ACF 50 in a few weeks if it ever warms up.

What is the penchant for a sunroof? My Sprinty has one and I think I would prefer without for looks, lines and headroom?

Your car sounds like it is in safe hands, enjoy it!

Hi again,
Have you taken the wheel arch liners off and checked the inner edges of the wheel arches? This seems to be a common place where they start to go.
As for the sunroof thing I think it's a matter of personal taste. I've always tried to get cars with opening sunroofs. I'm only average height so headroom is not an issue and I love the feeling of fresh air and sunlight coming from above my head. If there was a drug to cure it, I'd take it!

I’m curious about the sunroof situation as, when I was looking, I noticed that the listings would say the sunroof was rare but I found that the cars I was looking at all had sunroofs! It was quite an expensive option when new so maybe it was just a coincidence that these sunroof cars all came onto the market at the same time? Anyone got stats on proportion of cars with/without the sunroof? Mine also has climate control which seems like an odd combo with a sunroof - I suppose it’s super versatile!

It's not that models fitted with sunroofs are rare, it's the availability of the glass with a sound lipped metal surround that the seal fits onto.

You can add mine to your list; it has a sunroof + AC

I feel it has to be pointed out (pedantically perhaps) that discussions about specific items are better included in a dedicated thread, where possible; this makes it easier for anyone doing a search to gather their information

Apologies if I’ve hijacked the thread. I can remove my post if you like?

Another time