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Re: My 16VT on the RR
[Re: Saint]
#882712
13/08/2009 19:46
13/08/2009 19:46
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 123 Paris, France
crazyf1
On a journey
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On a journey
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 123
Paris, France
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The problem with the car orignally was the wastegate not opening at all, or staying open all the time, it wasn't a chip problem but a hardware problem.
Ok thanks Anyway it is a strange problem
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Re: My 16VT on the RR
[Re: kj16v]
#888750
25/08/2009 17:19
25/08/2009 17:19
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Martijn
Unregistered
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Martijn
Unregistered
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Hi mate,
thanks for the post and message! Im on holiday in the us right now, but i believe that my bhp at wheels was around 140. Ill install dink chip+ fmic when im back + running a little more boost by then. I will post the next graph on here then!
what power does yours make?
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Re: My 16VT on the RR
[Re: kj16v]
#917864
14/10/2009 11:57
14/10/2009 11:57
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Martijn
Unregistered
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Martijn
Unregistered
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Alright, the modification list so far: * Blitz SBC-R dual solenoid boost controller (four settings: 0.8/1.0/1.15/1.35 bar) * Dink performance chip ( www.lanciahf.eu) * Cold sparkplugs * Large front mount intercooler * 2,5" full stainless steel exhaust system, race cat. * Original airbox, modified with BMC race panel filter. * Modified wiring to the fuel pump for better voltage * Forge GT dumpvalve * Balance shafts locked/belt removed. I will be going to the dyno in 30 mins, will make it run on 1.15 and 1.35 bar boost with standard turbo. I tend to run 1.15 on the road, and just do a 1.35 run to see what it has over 1.15. So..more info to come later today when i am back!
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Re: My 16VT on the RR
[Re: ]
#918037
14/10/2009 15:55
14/10/2009 15:55
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Martijn
Unregistered
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Martijn
Unregistered
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Alright, these are the, still dissapointing, results! At 1.15 bar: 206 bhp At 1.35 bar: 209 bhp torque: At 1.15 bar: 303 nm At 1.35 bar: 321 nm Graphs: Comments from the RR guy *fuelling is fine, a little rich *Turbo takes very long to spool up!!! Im not really satisfied on this. Must say i was hoping for at least 230 bhp. Must also say that there was a guy with a sierra cosworth hitting 275 bhp here, and hitting 302 at a different dyno yesterday..
Last edited by Martijn; 14/10/2009 15:57.
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Re: My 16VT on the RR
[Re: ]
#918152
14/10/2009 20:02
14/10/2009 20:02
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,895 New Zealand
Saint
My life on the forum
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My life on the forum
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,895
New Zealand
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well, from what I can tell this is the same dyno you used to start this thread so based on that I the same dyno you have gone from 170bhp 244nm to 206bhp/300nm that is 36bhp up and 60nm since the last run Please right a list of what has changed between this 2 runs. I agree wheel power still seems low but dyno's do vary quite a bit, do you have a feel for how this one reads? based on the cosworth guy that is 10% lower which would take you to 230bhp which is still a bit low but within the rnage of 230-250bhp on stage 1 mods. Dyno's are all about comparsion and you are heading in the right direction, picking up 35bhp is good As for spool, it seems to be around 3800rpm which is a bit slow for a standard turbo, below is my boost graph and boost hits by 3600rpm Again could be the cat making extra back pressure as I don't run one. It would seem that the turbo is being a bit lazy, time for an upgrade
Last edited by Saint; 14/10/2009 20:18.
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Re: My 16VT on the RR
[Re: Saint]
#918159
14/10/2009 20:20
14/10/2009 20:20
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Martijn
Unregistered
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Martijn
Unregistered
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My last run was on 0.8 bar.
Addons since last run:
Dink chip cold spark plugs higher boost (1.15 and 1.35) FMIC
what i am thinking of: With my blitz i can set up the max boost, but i think also how fast the boost comes in. This might be adjustable to a faster rating, so the boost kicks in faster - earlier RPM's. But: would this really make such a difference in top end power?
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Re: My 16VT on the RR
[Re: Saint]
#918207
14/10/2009 21:30
14/10/2009 21:30
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Martijn
Unregistered
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Martijn
Unregistered
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The GAIN was set to 18.
As i can read for blitz, this is what the manual say's:
Start with a setting of 5 and increase this step by step during testing. A value between 20 and 30 for single turbos and 5 - 15 for twin turbo's or sequential systems is very common.
So, 18 might be a bit low. I will test it tomorow starting with 20, and increasing from there until the boost rise's too fast for my liking/overboosting too much.
Power wise, best might be to overboost to 1.35 for a second or 2 for the torque, then falling back into 1.15. (scramble boost). I don't know how this works yet (how to set it up right) so i will firt find a decent GAIN setting.
Last edited by Martijn; 14/10/2009 21:46.
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Re: My 16VT on the RR
[Re: Freddan72]
#918420
15/10/2009 11:28
15/10/2009 11:28
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Martijn
Unregistered
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Martijn
Unregistered
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Hi Freddan,
they didnt gave me a boost curve, i dont think that it was measured. Also i didnt think of the spool up time @ the dynojet center. These guys also are not enthousiast or willing to support you in any way, if you dont ask, they dont talk. I will go to a different center next time for sure.
Ill look at the spool up GAIN later tonight, see what it does to the car. Yet i dont think that it will add 30-40 bhp, will it?
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Re: My 16VT on the RR
[Re: Nigel]
#918441
15/10/2009 12:06
15/10/2009 12:06
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Martijn
Unregistered
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Martijn
Unregistered
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Okay Nigel, that makes sence. But right now, the turbo comes in real late, it starts building up boost around 2800, but obtains full boost around 3.700-4.000 i think this could be restrictive too: It originally was a twin exit pipe, now turned into one exit. Probably not 30-40bhp as well, but it can't hurt to open that hole again.
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Re: My 16VT on the RR
[Re: Freddan72]
#918631
15/10/2009 17:07
15/10/2009 17:07
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Martijn
Unregistered
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Martijn
Unregistered
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What should i feel when i have a boost leak? One of my intercoolerpipes leaked, which made the boost not build up higher than 0.4 bar. this was fixed before the dyno run.
I do think that the manifold-cylinder head gasket leaks a very very little, i feel some air blowing out right there, but maybe not enough to blow out a candle.
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Re: My 16VT on the RR
[Re: Saint]
#919041
16/10/2009 09:32
16/10/2009 09:32
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Martijn
Unregistered
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Martijn
Unregistered
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I will look into the leaking later today. I have sent you this through PM Saint, but i post it on here as well to see if maybe somebody else can come up with something:
*I played with the GAIN setting up to 35, no difference in spool-up time *Sometimes the boost wont go higher than between 0,3-0,6 bar, or reach 1 bar +- after 5.000 rpm. *The boost behaviour differs, and the longer i drive (i did around 80 km/s of testing) the worse it became. Sometimes it does spool up (but still late like on the dyno) sometimes it doesn't spool up to the desired boost lvl but much lower. Sometimes it keeps at 0,5 bar, sometimes when going to 1bar+ in 3rd gear, and i shift to fourth it is stuck at 0,5 bar for a second or 2, then slowly builds up towards 1 bar.
It does smell different too, like a burned smell of oil. I didnt actually see smoke, tho.
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Re: My 16VT on the RR
[Re: ]
#919069
16/10/2009 09:53
16/10/2009 09:53
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,194 Göteborg, Sweden
Freddan72
Competition Level
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Competition Level
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,194
Göteborg, Sweden
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I think your turbo or the the wastegate is f.u.c.k.e.d. . Have you checked it? What boost pressure do you see when the EBC is switched off?
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Re: My 16VT on the RR
[Re: Freddan72]
#919086
16/10/2009 10:23
16/10/2009 10:23
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Martijn
Unregistered
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Martijn
Unregistered
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I think that Saint has a point that the leak @ manifold gasket can be larger when on boost. I want this repaired anyway, so a new gasket for the manifold will be ordered soon.
Freddan, what checks/tests can i do to see if the turbo-wastegate is f* ? for the wastegate, move the arm and see if the wastegate flap can move freely?
Thanks everyone for thinking with me!
Last edited by Martijn; 16/10/2009 10:24.
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Re: My 16VT on the RR
[Re: Saint]
#919274
16/10/2009 14:36
16/10/2009 14:36
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Martijn
Unregistered
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Martijn
Unregistered
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The leak i mentioned is between the cylinder head and exhaust manifold, so manifold gasket.
Exhaust leak should be fixed anyway, i gave a call to the RR company this morning, and discribing my *symptons* they said it is probably the turbo on its way out. If there is a way to test this before spending a fortune, could somebody post that up please?
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Re: My 16VT on the RR
[Re: ]
#919565
16/10/2009 20:35
16/10/2009 20:35
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,194 Göteborg, Sweden
Freddan72
Competition Level
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Competition Level
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,194
Göteborg, Sweden
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Yes move the actuator arm and see if the flap is moving. One other way to check wastegate is to remove hose from actuator. But be very careful, go easy on the gas pedal. If your wg is good the boost pressure will rise really fast. So be careful If the boost pressure doesn't rise fast you have a wastegate problem. Check for axial play: get hold of the compressor wheel and move it in/out. You should have very little play. Good luck!
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Re: My 16VT on the RR
[Re: Freddan72]
#919694
17/10/2009 00:47
17/10/2009 00:47
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Martijn
Unregistered
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Martijn
Unregistered
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Ok: I have done the following:
*Drive w/o Blitz on, to see if the problem is within the Blitz: no result *disconnect the hose from the blitz, which should make the boost rise very quickly to 1.5 bar: no result *check if the actuator arm is still connected the to wastegate flap: it is.
Then i tried to move the arm(while standing in front of the engine bay), but it is stuck and i cant move it. I didnt jack the car up, i will do that tomorow night and get under it to try to move the flap itself.
What im thinking is that the wastegate might be like half open, so it can't build up proper boost. Yesterday it sometimes hesitated to give good boost, right now i cant even reach 1 bar. It just very slowly crawls up to 0.6-0.7 bar.
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Re: My 16VT on the RR
[Re: ]
#919703
17/10/2009 01:44
17/10/2009 01:44
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,728 London
kj16v
My life on the forum
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My life on the forum
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,728
London
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Hi Martijn. Well a gain of 30 bhp is a great result - shame it currently only takes it to standard power! The actuator should be very difficult to move by hand. The spring in the wastegate is very strong. You say you disconnected the actuator from the blitz and just had the pipe open to atmoshpere, and yet it only reached 0.7 bar? That's definitly not right then. Unfortunately the turbo is in such a position that it's not possible to check the wastegate flapper without taking the turbo out.
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Re: My 16VT on the RR
[Re: kj16v]
#919785
17/10/2009 10:48
17/10/2009 10:48
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Martijn
Unregistered
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Martijn
Unregistered
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Hi Kj16v,
I had a wastegate issue before: the arm was not connected to the flapper. When it was like this, i could easily twist the flap from open to closed. Perhaps when i disconnect my actuator arm, i can check if its stuck or not?
Indeed with removing the hose from the actuator from the blitz it still would not change the behaviour: still no fast boost rising and a max boost around 0.7 bar.
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Re: My 16VT on the RR
[Re: ]
#920286
18/10/2009 16:43
18/10/2009 16:43
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Martijn
Unregistered
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Martijn
Unregistered
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I moved the arm of the actuator a bit, it indeed is very hard to move due to the spring.
Later when i was standing at a traffic light, some smoke was coming from my exhaust. Not a very thick smoke, and not a real lot but it was there. Im afraid the turbo is just on its way out, i will see if there is a specialist who can confirm this before removing it.
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Re: My 16VT on the RR
[Re: ]
#920905
19/10/2009 18:35
19/10/2009 18:35
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Martijn
Unregistered
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Martijn
Unregistered
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And... the story continues:
*I bought 2 new clamps today for the intercooler-hose connection, because i thought it might be leaking. After putting the new clamps on, i have removed the hose from the wastegate actuator and took the car for a spin:
It built up boost to 1.5 bar!
So, i put the hose back on, and everything worked fine, for 3 minutes.
After three minutes, the pressure fell back again and it was slowly building up boost to 0.7/0.8 bar again...
Anyone who can put me in the right direction here?
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