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Re: EU Fccuk Poll - In or Out
[Re: Theresa]
#1577440
18/06/2016 19:30
18/06/2016 19:30
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Big_Muzzie
Unregistered
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Big_Muzzie
Unregistered
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Just because it's better than some doesn't mean it's doing well, and if it's doing well then it can support itself rather than others.
See these are the arguments in my head... For every positive for either side it can spin easily either way. Tbh I just want Cameron and his shitty Chancellor to go. They're both, imop, useless, wet and clueless.
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Re: EU Fccuk Poll - In or Out
[Re: MeanRedSpider]
#1577441
18/06/2016 19:31
18/06/2016 19:31
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Jonny
Unregistered
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Jonny
Unregistered
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The country isn't falling apart - it's actually in better shape than most.
You're right. Unfortunately it appears far too many people are swayed by Daily Mail style media coverage
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Re: EU Fccuk Poll - In or Out
[Re: ]
#1577443
18/06/2016 19:35
18/06/2016 19:35
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Jonny
Unregistered
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Jonny
Unregistered
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No one knows what will happen if we vote out, but we know where we are if we stay and this country is a mess.
I'm on the fence - so am ready to be swayed to vote either way.
Muzz- we both have a financial background. What mess are we in? My only issue currently that relates to the EU is that there needs to be better regulation on immigration/benefits/use of resources. However it is nowhere near as bad as the media make out
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Re: EU Fccuk Poll - In or Out
[Re: ]
#1577444
18/06/2016 19:37
18/06/2016 19:37
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Big_Muzzie
Unregistered
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Big_Muzzie
Unregistered
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The country isn't falling apart - it's actually in better shape than most.
You're right. Unfortunately it appears far too many people are swayed by Daily Mail style media coverage Come to West Yorkshire, you'll soon change your mind. The whole county is being destroyed. Too many people are swayed BOTH WAYS by total crap, nonsense and lies. This whole campaign is full of nonsense. Even sensible people are starting to talk like loonies.
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Re: EU Fccuk Poll - In or Out
[Re: ]
#1577445
18/06/2016 19:44
18/06/2016 19:44
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Jonny
Unregistered
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Jonny
Unregistered
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The country isn't falling apart - it's actually in better shape than most.
You're right. Unfortunately it appears far too many people are swayed by Daily Mail style media coverage Come to West Yorkshire, you'll soon change your mind. The whole county is being destroyed. Too many people are swayed BOTH WAYS by total crap, nonsense and lies. This whole campaign is full of nonsense. Even sensible people are starting to talk like loonies. Can't disagree with the campaign. Boris would choose to remain out of choice. He's only doing it to become PM... How's it being destroyed?
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Re: EU Fccuk Poll - In or Out
[Re: ]
#1577446
18/06/2016 19:48
18/06/2016 19:48
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,852 Cambridge & Cotswolds
MeanRedSpider
Je suis un Coupé
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Je suis un Coupé
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,852
Cambridge & Cotswolds
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Come to West Yorkshire, you'll soon change your mind. The whole county is being destroyed.
You'll have to do better than that in explaining what's wrong. I say again that the UK is doing better than most. Because one region isn't doing so well (allegedly) doesn't mean the whole place is going to the dogs.
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Re: EU Fccuk Poll - In or Out
[Re: Theresa]
#1577473
19/06/2016 00:01
19/06/2016 00:01
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Big_Muzzie
Unregistered
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Big_Muzzie
Unregistered
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Yes the UK is doing better than most, so it can suvive on its own. So you've answered one thing. How's it being destroyed? come visit, take a walk around. There are nutters raping school girls, opposing nutters shooting MP's... That's correct, I'm not on anyone side, like you all are, in out, migration is good bad in different I don't care all I want is change, the populus to wake up. It's a changing world, migration is good and bad, a trade union Is good and bad. America, they have different rules and laws and are plauged by them (look at all the shootings) France are stuck in pre Maggie days when it comes to labour, China, well most people accept China is bent (but look how STRONG they are)! It's a world wide issue, not local, not national it's international, small single minded comments done work. The two threads on here are so narrow to an individuals pov it hurts. I don't know what's best, no one else does either, if you think you do then you are a total fool cos you can't see the future and don't have the slightest insight into the real workings of the world. It bores me stupid, it really does. Barnacles long post summed it up for me about how much better xyz was, so much synacism, so much "I know better than you" well for once I can honestly say, no you don't. Neither do I, no one does. Vote for what you think is right, hope the outcome is what you want. I'm nervous as hell, in and who knows - there could be mass migration like you've never seen and the likes of which could crush this small island. Lest we forget all the tolls paid for being strong and doing well. We could leave, but then who cares about 60 million people.on a small island when there is a whole world to trade with?? All the arguments I've heard are hollow and weak, not one has shouted out, with foundation in either direction. I know what I see. I see a country being lead down the garden path by a fool making promises in return for power. Now he realises what he's unleashed. The end of the UK? End of Europe? Pretty big steak for the pomp of one who wished to be elected, made a promise to the electorate for a referendum. MRS, I don't have to explain all, I said come visit, come live away from your isolated life in Inverness, come see Bradford, Halifax, Keighley. See what their history says and where they are now and I'll show you proud, prosperous places that have fallen into the gutter.
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Re: EU Fccuk Poll - In or Out
[Re: Theresa]
#1577474
19/06/2016 00:03
19/06/2016 00:03
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Big_Muzzie
Unregistered
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Big_Muzzie
Unregistered
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Plus, you're all not listening, I'm not preaching in either direction. There are good basic reasons for both votes.
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Re: EU Fccuk Poll - In or Out
[Re: ]
#1577546
19/06/2016 19:50
19/06/2016 19:50
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,603 Corridor of Uncertainty
Jim_Clennell
Forum veteran
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Forum veteran
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,603
Corridor of Uncertainty
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Yes the UK is doing better than most, so it can suvive on its own. So you've answered one thing. How's it being destroyed? come visit, take a walk around. There are nutters raping school girls, opposing nutters shooting MP's... That's correct, I'm not on anyone side, like you all are, in out, migration is good bad in different I don't care all I want is change, the populus to wake up. It's a changing world, migration is good and bad, a trade union Is good and bad. America, they have different rules and laws and are plauged by them (look at all the shootings) France are stuck in pre Maggie days when it comes to labour, China, well most people accept China is bent (but look how STRONG they are)! It's a world wide issue, not local, not national it's international, small single minded comments done work. The two threads on here are so narrow to an individuals pov it hurts. I don't know what's best, no one else does either, if you think you do then you are a total fool cos you can't see the future and don't have the slightest insight into the real workings of the world. It bores me stupid, it really does. Barnacles long post summed it up for me about how much better xyz was, so much synacism, so much "I know better than you" well for once I can honestly say, no you don't. Neither do I, no one does. Vote for what you think is right, hope the outcome is what you want. I'm nervous as hell, in and who knows - there could be mass migration like you've never seen and the likes of which could crush this small island. Lest we forget all the tolls paid for being strong and doing well. We could leave, but then who cares about 60 million people.on a small island when there is a whole world to trade with?? All the arguments I've heard are hollow and weak, not one has shouted out, with foundation in either direction. I know what I see. I see a country being lead down the garden path by a fool making promises in return for power. Now he realises what he's unleashed. The end of the UK? End of Europe? Pretty big steak for the pomp of one who wished to be elected, made a promise to the electorate for a referendum. MRS, I don't have to explain all, I said come visit, come live away from your isolated life in Inverness, come see Bradford, Halifax, Keighley. See what their history says and where they are now and I'll show you proud, prosperous places that have fallen into the gutter. And you tell this to't youth of today and they don't believe you! You don't have to explain anything, BM, but if you want anyone to respect what you say (not, apparently a foregone conclusion) then it certainly helps. I grew up in Yorkshire in the 70s and 80s and watched manufacturing industry and mining die difficult deaths for a variety of reasons. I would argue that the loss of these, and in particular the textiles industry, did more to alter the face of West Yorks than most other factors in modern times. This is where your "once proud" cities lost out. And, apart from enjoying the faint sound of brass bands in the background, like a Yorkshire Tea advert, I can't see what your point is. As you might (or might not) have been saying, this has little or nothing to do with the debate about Europe. Nor, incidentally, does the thankfully rare, but nevertheless nasty, practice of preying on vulnerable girls. So, no, you don't have to explain yourself to MRS or anyone else, but if you don't, it does make what you are saying a bit unclear. That's the point of explaining.
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Re: EU Fccuk Poll - In or Out
[Re: Theresa]
#1577668
20/06/2016 21:30
20/06/2016 21:30
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Big_Muzzie
Unregistered
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Big_Muzzie
Unregistered
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Sorry, that was a rather long rant... It's frustration more than anything, the whole debate has turned into spin and scaremongering. Facts are quoted out of context or with no context at all, experts are wheeled out (there are so many experts that know what the implications of an exit are it makes me laugh) - a classic is who will do the jobs if the migrants are forced to leave? Simple answer, the unemployed.
Ah, but then what about the skilled workers they'll say
Well, we allowed a points system so if they have a value to the economy they'll be allowed to carry on.
And so back and forth it would go.
Then there's trade deals, exports to Europe are 10%, next person says 40%.... Then imports from are 25% then 50%....
Again, no clear picture.
Other quotes: the UK is in a much better financial position than many other countries. But it will fall apart outside Europe. Will it? If it is strong then it has power to negotiate, if it isn't doing that well then we have more fibs.
I listen to Cameron and he can't give a straight answer, farage talks like a leader, presents well the only issue is what he talks about, if he was for the remain I dare say I'd be sold.
The parent company for where I work is based outside lille, so and exit has massive implications for me. Is it selfish to vote based on this micro view without thinking about other industry that may benefit?
I said come visit an old Mill town / city, that's were you can see the issues in action. You are correct Jim, the 70's did there damage, the recession of the 90's kicked them pretty hard too. Now, in the last 5 years I've seen a change like I couldn't believe possible. You know it's bad when the Asian population starts slagging off immigration!
Apologies if I came across rude, it wasn't my intention at all I'm just a frustrated logical accountant that feels like he's being sold something by a marketing team quoting costs that you damn well know are bollocks.
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Re: EU Fccuk Poll - In or Out
[Re: Jim_Clennell]
#1577677
20/06/2016 23:27
20/06/2016 23:27
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,306 Pontefract, West Yorkshire
andyps
Club member 1482
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Club member 1482
My job on the forum
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,306
Pontefract, West Yorkshire
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And you tell this to't youth of today and they don't believe you!
You don't have to explain anything, BM, but if you want anyone to respect what you say (not, apparently a foregone conclusion) then it certainly helps.
I grew up in Yorkshire in the 70s and 80s and watched manufacturing industry and mining die difficult deaths for a variety of reasons. I would argue that the loss of these, and in particular the textiles industry, did more to alter the face of West Yorks than most other factors in modern times. This is where your "once proud" cities lost out. And, apart from enjoying the faint sound of brass bands in the background, like a Yorkshire Tea advert, I can't see what your point is. As you might (or might not) have been saying, this has little or nothing to do with the debate about Europe. Nor, incidentally, does the thankfully rare, but nevertheless nasty, practice of preying on vulnerable girls.
So, no, you don't have to explain yourself to MRS or anyone else, but if you don't, it does make what you are saying a bit unclear. That's the point of explaining.
Just to pick up on the point about textiles in Yorkshire Jim, I can't find (and haven't got much time to look at the moment) the statistic that I saw which said that there are more textiles manufactured in Yorkshire now than at any time in history, just that there are a lot less people involved in making them - a second industrial revolution if you like.
Andy
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Re: EU Fccuk Poll - In or Out
[Re: ]
#1577682
21/06/2016 00:15
21/06/2016 00:15
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,988 Sunny Darlo
Wishy
Forum is my life
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Forum is my life
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,988
Sunny Darlo
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the whole debate has turned into spin and scaremongering. I totally agree with this (from both sides). The end.
Up yours Photobucket.
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Re: EU Fccuk Poll - In or Out
[Re: MeanRedSpider]
#1577701
21/06/2016 10:36
21/06/2016 10:36
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,895 2011 and 2015 FCCUK F1 Champ.
bezzer
Forum is my life
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Forum is my life
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,895
2011 and 2015 FCCUK F1 Champ.
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If you want facts, I encourage you again to listen to "More or Less" on the Radio iPlayer - it's very clear and seemingly unbiased. It goes to the root of the numbers. Don't listen to the spin - get the facts. Being properly informed is really a duty before you vote. Agree MRS. A Voice of Reason amongst the rants and drivel.
......My Boy...... (PB #7)
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Re: EU Fccuk Poll - In or Out
[Re: MeanRedSpider]
#1577742
21/06/2016 16:12
21/06/2016 16:12
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Big_Muzzie
Unregistered
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Big_Muzzie
Unregistered
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If you want facts, I encourage you again to listen to "More or Less" on the Radio iPlayer - it's very clear and seemingly unbiased. It goes to the root of the numbers. Don't listen to the spin - get the facts. Being properly informed is really a duty before you vote. I shall listen this afternoon, be nice to hear some truth! Thank you
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Re: EU Fccuk Poll - In or Out
[Re: ]
#1577785
21/06/2016 21:23
21/06/2016 21:23
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,603 Corridor of Uncertainty
Jim_Clennell
Forum veteran
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Forum veteran
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,603
Corridor of Uncertainty
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If you want facts, I encourage you again to listen to "More or Less" on the Radio iPlayer - it's very clear and seemingly unbiased. It goes to the root of the numbers. Don't listen to the spin - get the facts. Being properly informed is really a duty before you vote. I shall listen this afternoon, be nice to hear some truth! Thank you I listened to the first half of the Referendum omnibus this afternoon. Very well presented and it seemed equally ready to dismiss or challenge claims from either side. Worth an hour of anyone's time.
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Re: EU Fccuk Poll - In or Out
[Re: Jim_Clennell]
#1577923
22/06/2016 20:33
22/06/2016 20:33
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Big_Muzzie
Unregistered
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Big_Muzzie
Unregistered
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If you want facts, I encourage you again to listen to "More or Less" on the Radio iPlayer - it's very clear and seemingly unbiased. It goes to the root of the numbers. Don't listen to the spin - get the facts. Being properly informed is really a duty before you vote. I shall listen this afternoon, be nice to hear some truth! Thank you I listened to the first half of the Referendum omnibus this afternoon. Very well presented and it seemed equally ready to dismiss or challenge claims from either side. Worth an hour of anyone's time. It's in stark contrast to the TV debates and very well presented. It confirmed my fears that most of what is quoted is out of context or in some cases a nonsense stat to begin with - gdp / households. Who in their right minds believes gdp I'd driven by or relates to how many houses there are?? I think there should be a third vote, the "shake it all about" vote. I couldn't stand either side gaining victory, I am hoping for a draw.
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Re: EU Fccuk Poll - In or Out
[Re: Theresa]
#1577927
22/06/2016 21:14
22/06/2016 21:14
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glenn1960
Unregistered
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glenn1960
Unregistered
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It would alo be nice if newspapers and news channels gave unbiased opinions . I have had the misfortune to have the ' mirror 'delivered every day [ thanks grandad ] and the coverage borders on the ridiculous.
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Re: EU Fccuk Poll - In or Out
[Re: ]
#1577928
22/06/2016 21:31
22/06/2016 21:31
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 754 The South of the West
JonH
Enjoying the ride
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Enjoying the ride
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 754
The South of the West
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I think there should be a third vote, the "shake it all about" vote. I couldn't stand either side gaining victory, I am hoping for a draw.
If the populus decide to exit the European 'Union'? tomorrow it is still not a done deal as our sovereignity/decision rests with parliament alone. Paliamentary statutes will still have to be proposed,made,voted on in both houses. If our decision is 'stay in' then parliament will probably vote on making that irrevocable forever. If our decision is 'get the hell out as quick as possible, why were we so gullible in the first place?' then parliament will probably be wined and dined by the other euro states with extra (devious short term) perks for the UK - and then we will have another referendum to see if the people would now like to stay in under a magical new reformed european block. And of course once we've been duped it will be an all out effort to remove the negotiated short term perks as soon as possible. Did you know that we(UK) are a member of the Commonwealth?. (The Commonwealth of Nations, previously the British Commonwealth) This seems to have worked as a trading and moral membership for many decades without the need for interference & political union - although of course our current membership of the EU has forced local trading agreements between UK & Commonwealth partners to be ostensibly outlawed when they conflict with the Eurobloc closed shop. Perhaps membership of the Commonwealth (aka: the Common - WEALTH) should be ceded by the UK if we masochistically stay with the eurobloc.
No.199
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Re: EU Fccuk Poll - In or Out
[Re: JonH]
#1577931
22/06/2016 21:46
22/06/2016 21:46
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,852 Cambridge & Cotswolds
MeanRedSpider
Je suis un Coupé
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Je suis un Coupé
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,852
Cambridge & Cotswolds
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If our decision is 'stay in' then parliament will probably vote on making that irrevocable forever.
Why on earth would they do that? And how could it ever be enforceable? They wouldn't and it isn't. The Commonwealth is an entirely different set up and, with the Queen as the head of it, it's probably got more political union than you imagine. There are also fees and no free trade zone. I'm not sure why it's is relevant to this discussion though I seem to remember it being called a "eurosceptic fantasy" or similar
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Re: EU Fccuk Poll - In or Out
[Re: MeanRedSpider]
#1577935
22/06/2016 22:05
22/06/2016 22:05
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 754 The South of the West
JonH
Enjoying the ride
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Enjoying the ride
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 754
The South of the West
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Why on earth would they do that? And how could it ever be enforceable? They wouldn't and it isn't.
They will, and it is, i'm afraid. The Commonwealth is an entirely different set up and, with the Queen as the head of it, it's probably got more political union than you imagine. There are also fees and no free trade zone. I'm not sure why it's is relevant to this discussion though I seem to remember it being called a "eurosceptic fantasy" or similar
Yes, it would be embarrassing for the Queen to be head of a world group, where the Country that she lives in doesn't live to the same cooperative values. And it has little political union. But many Commonwealth nations do run a legal and other systems nurtured from 'the Mother Country'. And the relevance to the topic ? - perhaps just an interjection to suggest that other fair methods of world collaboration can work far better/best.
No.199
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Re: EU Fccuk Poll - In or Out
[Re: MeanRedSpider]
#1577937
22/06/2016 22:16
22/06/2016 22:16
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 754 The South of the West
JonH
Enjoying the ride
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Enjoying the ride
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 754
The South of the West
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You'll have to explain how it can be irrevocable - what law in the UK was ever thus?
Too funny on the Commonwealth - have you seen which countries are in it and the records of some of them? It's mostly just a British Empire Old Boys club Do you really think that the Federal Europe is NOT the next step??????. Do you really think that from that time the UK will have PERMISSION to make its own decisions??????. Come on you anti brexits, wake up and smell the roses !!!!!!!!!!. And yes, all Countries have atrocities on their conscience. In the past, in the present, and more than likely in the future. And I mean ALL Countries.
No.199
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Re: EU Fccuk Poll - In or Out
[Re: Theresa]
#1577938
22/06/2016 22:21
22/06/2016 22:21
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FreakinFreak
Unregistered
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FreakinFreak
Unregistered
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Why is it that Leavers speak in caps-lock?
And btw, I don't want to be a pedant but I think you mean 'smell the coffee', smelling the roses indicates that all is well and our relationship with the EU is a wonderful thing.
Last edited by FreakinFreak; 22/06/2016 22:25.
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Re: EU Fccuk Poll - In or Out
[Re: ]
#1577944
22/06/2016 22:35
22/06/2016 22:35
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 754 The South of the West
JonH
Enjoying the ride
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Enjoying the ride
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 754
The South of the West
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Why is it that Leavers speak in caps-lock?
We dont. we TYPE in caps-lock. And btw, I don't want to be a pedant but I think you mean 'smell the coffee', smelling the roses indicates that all is well and our relationship with the EU is a wonderful thing.
smelling the roses sounds ok to me, it will be like a realisation when it comes to you. I think the coffee option is probably a euro spinoff, so we'll have none of that thank you very much. The Commonwealth is irrelevant.
So so wrong. I am a Commonwealth citizen. The European Union is irrelevant. * In case anyone hasnt realised........... my vote tomorrow will not consist of anything relating to staying in, my descendants will thank me for their freedom
No.199
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