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Re: n/a owner tempted by vt
[Re: Nigel]
#1522724
23/01/2015 01:45
23/01/2015 01:45
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sa_20v
Unregistered
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sa_20v
Unregistered
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You need a passenger ride in mine... 0-100 in around 9 seconds and 150 eight seconds later (and 175 another eight seconds after that) is plenty of soul (although I hear your point, hence why mine goes round corners fairly well too....) Completely bonkers. I must make a mental note not to race you!
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Re: n/a owner tempted by vt
[Re: ]
#1522738
23/01/2015 09:17
23/01/2015 09:17
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pjdm
Unregistered
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pjdm
Unregistered
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Has anyone offered the original poster a go in their turbo?! Some borderline ludicrous posts pj - well done! Owned a 16V N/A for several years. Can say the same of my 328bhp turbo plus which I still own now. Off boost the turbo pulls like any other sedate car and is perfectly driveable in city traffic. The N/A always felt woefully underpowered. An observation made the first time I drove it, before I'd ever been in a turbo coupe. Reliability at least in part comes down to care and maintenance. My plus has never left me stranded anywhere or even failed to start. It's very well looked after and yet most significant costs have been through choice rather than necessity. I recall the 16V N/A had better steering feel but let's keep a sensible perspective on this, that's the only thing it did better and even then the difference is somewhere between mild and moderate, certainly not extreme. Driving my N/A hard gave the sense of total vehicular domination, great fun but easy to find *my* limit. Maybe takes a bit more time to get the same confidence pushing extremely hard in a 20VT but exactly as Nigel says that comes with high speed thrills aplenty. The 'point and squirt' mentioned here stems from the need to come back down from silly speeds the turbo piles on in seconds, but having that extra power doesn't preclude carrying speed round a bend or applying throttle in a controlled manner. IMO the 20VT (especially when modified) is more likely to have talents that exceed those of its driver. On that basis I submit that it's more rewarding for a 'spirited' drive. As a lot of you do Spa every year, are there any comparative lap times available? Nothing borderline here pfftt is my response. Perhaps your na was a Nissan micra :-D loosing patience slowly.
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Re: n/a owner tempted by vt
[Re: barnacle]
#1522743
23/01/2015 09:57
23/01/2015 09:57
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 869 Germany
neil_r
Enjoying the ride
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Enjoying the ride
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 869
Germany
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Relax, Phil... it's only a car!
Life would be boring if we all liked the same things. I like my 20V. I have had it from new and know that it still performs very much in the same ballpark as when it was new. It has only done 50k sympathetic miles and is still pretty tight. Performance-wise a good one should still be in modern warm-hatch territory, so I would not describe them as underpowered - just not really that fast. Comparing it with the performance of the model with 50% more power is futile. A standard 20VT is in another league. the 20V takes about 10 seconds longer to get to 100 mph than the 20VT - huge difference. But that does not make the non-blown car a bad car. If it suits, just enjoy it. I like the feel of the car and enjoy driving it. That is why I still have it. Really fast cars are over the speed limit before you know what has happened and driving them quickly may be a bit too easy so we take more pleasure in being able to drive a slower car fast. It is more challenging. It does not make the slower car a better car. A fast car makes picking of slower moving traffic easy but 90% of the time, that is what you need, so having that performance in hand is no bad thing. The other thing to put into perspective is that coupes don't have that much grip compared to modern machinery. Limits are lower and they need a more sensitive hand to drive fast, which adds to the fun when you are up for it but is a bit frustrating when you would rather the car would just do as it was told!
1997 20V 2000 V6 manual S-Type and 2011 5.0 XKR 2016 Tucson 1.6T AWD 2018 Mazda2 GT
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Re: n/a owner tempted by vt
[Re: neil_r]
#1522747
23/01/2015 10:54
23/01/2015 10:54
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pjdm
Unregistered
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pjdm
Unregistered
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Relax, Phil... it's only a car!
Life would be boring if we all liked the same things. I like my 20V. I have had it from new and know that it still performs very much in the same ballpark as when it was new. It has only done 50k sympathetic miles and is still pretty tight. Performance-wise a good one should still be in modern warm-hatch territory, so I would not describe them as underpowered - just not really that fast. Comparing it with the performance of the model with 50% more power is futile. A standard 20VT is in another league. the 20V takes about 10 seconds longer to get to 100 mph than the 20VT - huge difference. But that does not make the non-blown car a bad car. If it suits, just enjoy it. I like the feel of the car and enjoy driving it. That is why I still have it. Really fast cars are over the speed limit before you know what has happened and driving them quickly may be a bit too easy so we take more pleasure in being able to drive a slower car fast. It is more challenging. It does not make the slower car a better car. A fast car makes picking of slower moving traffic easy but 90% of the time, that is what you need, so having that performance in hand is no bad thing. The other thing to put into perspective is that coupes don't have that much grip compared to modern machinery. Limits are lower and they need a more sensitive hand to drive fast, which adds to the fun when you are up for it but is a bit frustrating when you would rather the car would just do as it was told! Point totaly missed sorry. If this thread was about speed I would get it, its not. its about comparison, yes the turbo id faster, does speed make a car better? No. If I put a NOS on my car would it make it better than a turbo just because it then goes faster and I can overtake? Lol id hope not. Its about comparisons, the na is a better all round car, its the original coupe, its the king, the rest are just pretenders. Hehehee I love a good debate especially when im right. Turbo owners, and ive owned 2 16 and a 20, please don't get upset im not saying an na is faster pmsl. NA is a better driving experience for me in MY educated,experienced opinion for me as a driver. Im not saying it is for anyone else lol. If any turbo owner would like to borrow my NA for a drive your more than welcome. can't resist this, its ok I don't need to borrow a turbo in return ive owned 2. And I can simply go on eBay or autotrader and buy 1 of the many turbo coupes for sale. But as you can't just go and buy a 16v na mines at your service . I have a broom up my ass this week its that time.
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Re: n/a owner tempted by vt
[Re: ]
#1522748
23/01/2015 11:03
23/01/2015 11:03
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nismo
Unregistered
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nismo
Unregistered
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the na is a better all round car, its the original coupe, its the king, the rest are just pretenders. Hehehee I love a good debate especially when im right. your just so wrong but you only hear your own voice ! watch out when it starts to tell you to start killing people
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Re: n/a owner tempted by vt
[Re: ]
#1522751
23/01/2015 11:29
23/01/2015 11:29
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pjdm
Unregistered
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pjdm
Unregistered
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the na is a better all round car, its the original coupe, its the king, the rest are just pretenders. Hehehee I love a good debate especially when im right. your just so wrong but you only hear your own voice ! watch out when it starts to tell you to start killing people I hear a voice the voice of reason. Be carefull you don't slip in that bullshit now wont you. :P:P:P I think this forum should just be for pure bloods your not a real vampire merely turned. Tounge in cheek btw pmsl
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Re: n/a owner tempted by vt
[Re: HiraethHuw]
#1522755
23/01/2015 11:37
23/01/2015 11:37
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nismo
Unregistered
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nismo
Unregistered
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oh dear
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Re: n/a owner tempted by vt
[Re: ]
#1522756
23/01/2015 11:41
23/01/2015 11:41
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 869 Germany
neil_r
Enjoying the ride
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Enjoying the ride
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 869
Germany
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Point totaly missed sorry. If this thread was about speed I would get it, its not.
Well actually, the thread started exactly with an interest in speed. THe OP asked what he was missing on the acceleration front. It has morphed into a handling/character discussion, and to be perfectly honest, the Coupe is no benchmark in the handling discipline! And we are more than likely comparing cars far from their original condition that any comparison is very fuzzy. You are trying to tell everybody that the 16V provides a better driving experience. This is very subjective. For you OK, for me, I don't know because I have never driven one and it is too long ago that I drove a 20VT. Acceleration is a part of the enjoyment of driving so the lack of it is hard to make up with refined handing, and on that front, the coupe is no Porsche or Lotus, etc.
Last edited by neil_r; 23/01/2015 11:42.
1997 20V 2000 V6 manual S-Type and 2011 5.0 XKR 2016 Tucson 1.6T AWD 2018 Mazda2 GT
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Re: n/a owner tempted by vt
[Re: ]
#1522757
23/01/2015 11:42
23/01/2015 11:42
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pjdm
Unregistered
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pjdm
Unregistered
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oh dear You slipped in it? its ok it cleans off.
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Re: n/a owner tempted by vt
[Re: HiraethHuw]
#1522758
23/01/2015 11:44
23/01/2015 11:44
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nismo
Unregistered
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nismo
Unregistered
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hahaha
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Re: n/a owner tempted by vt
[Re: neil_r]
#1522760
23/01/2015 11:49
23/01/2015 11:49
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pjdm
Unregistered
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pjdm
Unregistered
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Point totaly missed sorry. If this thread was about speed I would get it, its not.
Well actually, the thread started exactly with an interest in speed. THe OP asked what he was missing on the acceleration front. It has morphed into a handling/character discussion, and to be perfectly honest, the Coupe is no benchmark in the handling discipline! And we are more than likely comparing cars far from their original condition that any comparison is very fuzzy. You are trying to tell everybody that the 16V provides a better driving experience. This is very subjective. For you OK, for me, I don't know because I have never driven one and it is too long ago that I drove a 20VT. Acceleration is a part of the enjoyment of driving so the lack of it is hard to make up with refined handing, and on that front, the coupe is no Porsche or Lotus, etc. Just out of interest, how do you think the various models differ in how they drive? A question you asked...... Porshe, n other cars are ate elsewhere on forum I think. Coupe section You said you havnt driven an na and can't remember what its like to drive a 20vt that's insulting May I suggest for you www.nissanpriusowners.comall the best x
Last edited by pjdm; 23/01/2015 11:56.
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Re: n/a owner tempted by vt
[Re: HiraethHuw]
#1522773
23/01/2015 13:10
23/01/2015 13:10
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pjdm
Unregistered
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pjdm
Unregistered
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Well I would say your wrong, im a professional driver, police trained, also track experienced and control trained at the Transport Research Laboratory in Crowthorne London. If you had read this thread properly rather than just jumping in with an opinion you would have known. Its ok I can forgive your ignorance. You are forgiven. There are 3 types of driver. 1 - trained 2 - untrained 3 - thinks there trained Which are you
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Re: n/a owner tempted by vt
[Re: HiraethHuw]
#1522775
23/01/2015 13:14
23/01/2015 13:14
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 869 Germany
neil_r
Enjoying the ride
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Enjoying the ride
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 869
Germany
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I own a 20V and have done for the last 18 years, from new. I was one of those that paid good money for a FIAT Coupe. I like it. I have no problem with that. I drove a 20VT 18 years ago. I would be stupid to say I can really remember the fine details and differences. The performance difference was huge though and I still remember the ease with which it could join an Autobahn and effortlessly slot into de-restricted traffic. I could have bought either but I did not want the extra complexity of the turbos. I have never driven a 16V or a 16VT. I don't see why you are insulted by my memory being only average. I asked the question about differences out of interest. If I knew the difference for myself, I would have been a pointless question. I know nothing about the Nissan Prius. I didn't even know they existed, so I doubt I can contribute much on that front, unless I make it up, which is not my style. You are actually more likely to find me at the other end of the spectrum on the Jaguar XKR forum, if it is of any relevance to FIAT Coupes. Enjoy your driving
1997 20V 2000 V6 manual S-Type and 2011 5.0 XKR 2016 Tucson 1.6T AWD 2018 Mazda2 GT
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Re: n/a owner tempted by vt
[Re: neil_r]
#1522781
23/01/2015 13:44
23/01/2015 13:44
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pjdm
Unregistered
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pjdm
Unregistered
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I own a 20V and have done for the last 18 years, from new. I was one of those that paid good money for a FIAT Coupe. I like it. I have no problem with that. I drove a 20VT 18 years ago. I would be stupid to say I can really remember the fine details and differences. The performance difference was huge though and I still remember the ease with which it could join an Autobahn and effortlessly slot into de-restricted traffic. I could have bought either but I did not want the extra complexity of the turbos. I have never driven a 16V or a 16VT. I don't see why you are insulted by my memory being only average. I asked the question about differences out of interest. If I knew the difference for myself, I would have been a pointless question. I know nothing about the Nissan Prius. I didn't even know they existed, so I doubt I can contribute much on that front, unless I make it up, which is not my style. You are actually more likely to find me at the other end of the spectrum on the Jaguar XKR forum, if it is of any relevance to FIAT Coupes. Enjoy your driving Good Reply shame humour is hard to convey in my comments. I wasn't insulted merely an attempt at humour lol. I don't think there is a serious bone in me. However, i love winding people up, and im good at it.
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Re: n/a owner tempted by vt
[Re: HiraethHuw]
#1522783
23/01/2015 13:44
23/01/2015 13:44
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,370 Staffordshire
Nigel
Forum veteran
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Forum veteran
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,370
Staffordshire
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I've driven every variant of Coupe, from bog-standard 16v N/A to mad-modified 20VT Plus. I'm on record as saying the 16v N/A is the "purest", as it has the lightest front end and therefore the most transparent steering. Its a joy to drive, but it simply cannot be classed as "quick". The engine, when running properly, is responsive and revvy, but 139bhp hauling 1250+ kg is going to struggle against even mediocre modern stuff However, in my fairly lengthy experience, a stock 20vt can easily be improved to handle just as sweetly as a stock 16v and with a bit more expenditure on some choice handling mods a 20vt can be made to run rings round a 16v. As far as I'm concerned, the only advantage of a 16v N/A is that when you drop a tool in the engine bay, it'll always reach the ground....
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Re: n/a owner tempted by vt
[Re: HiraethHuw]
#1522788
23/01/2015 13:58
23/01/2015 13:58
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nissansteve
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nissansteve
Unregistered
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Re: n/a owner tempted by vt
[Re: ]
#1522790
23/01/2015 14:03
23/01/2015 14:03
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,291 Staffs
Dazvr6
My job on the forum
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My job on the forum
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,291
Staffs
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Well I would say your wrong, im a professional driver, police trained, also track experienced and control trained at the Transport Research Laboratory in Crowthorne London. If you had read this thread properly rather than just jumping in with an opinion you would have known. Its ok I can forgive your ignorance. You are forgiven. There are 3 types of driver. 1 - trained 2 - untrained 3 - thinks there trained Which are you You would say that. LOL I have read this thread properly thanks. I'm am not ignorant either but if that's your opinion you are entitled to it. Seeing as you asked I am also a trained driver, though not by the police. Not that it makes any difference! Just because you have been trained by the police doesn't mean you are a better driver than anybody else on here, so please stop banging on about it.
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Re: n/a owner tempted by vt
[Re: Dazvr6]
#1522792
23/01/2015 14:10
23/01/2015 14:10
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 869 Germany
neil_r
Enjoying the ride
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Enjoying the ride
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 869
Germany
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I thought we were trying to establish the difference between the various models ... ... and I'm no model by any stretch of the imagination Winding people up with insults is no great talent either, we could all do it ...
1997 20V 2000 V6 manual S-Type and 2011 5.0 XKR 2016 Tucson 1.6T AWD 2018 Mazda2 GT
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Re: n/a owner tempted by vt
[Re: Nigel]
#1522796
23/01/2015 14:24
23/01/2015 14:24
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,674 Berlin
barnacle
Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
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Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
Forum Demigod
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,674
Berlin
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As far as I'm concerned, the only advantage of a 16v N/A is that when you drop a tool in the engine bay, it'll always reach the ground.... Well, that *used* to be the case, but then I restored the undertray... Gentlemen, noting that humour is not always apparent in written words without facial context, might I request please that we try and keep the insults and the winding up down a little?
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Re: n/a owner tempted by vt
[Re: Dazvr6]
#1522801
23/01/2015 14:26
23/01/2015 14:26
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pjdm
Unregistered
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pjdm
Unregistered
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Well I would say your wrong, im a professional driver, police trained, also track experienced and control trained at the Transport Research Laboratory in Crowthorne London. If you had read this thread properly rather than just jumping in with an opinion you would have known. Its ok I can forgive your ignorance. You are forgiven. There are 3 types of driver. 1 - trained 2 - untrained 3 - thinks there trained Which are you You would say that. LOL I have read this thread properly thanks. I'm am not ignorant either but if that's your opinion you are entitled to it. Seeing as you asked I am also a trained driver, though not by the police. Not that it makes any difference! Just because you have been trained by the police doesn't mean you are a better driver than anybody else on here, so please stop banging on about it. The McDonald's driving school doesn't count. Im glad you read through properly this time. I forgive you :-D
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Re: n/a owner tempted by vt
[Re: barnacle]
#1522803
23/01/2015 14:31
23/01/2015 14:31
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pjdm
Unregistered
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pjdm
Unregistered
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As far as I'm concerned, the only advantage of a 16v N/A is that when you drop a tool in the engine bay, it'll always reach the ground.... Well, that *used* to be the case, but then I restored the undertray... Gentlemen, noting that humour is not always apparent in written words without facial context, might I request please that we try and keep the insults and the winding up down a little? I agree =D
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Re: n/a owner tempted by vt
[Re: barnacle]
#1522810
23/01/2015 14:42
23/01/2015 14:42
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,291 Staffs
Dazvr6
My job on the forum
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My job on the forum
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,291
Staffs
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The McDonald's driving school doesn't count.
Shame. That's where you trained wasn't it? As far as I'm concerned, the only advantage of a 16v N/A is that when you drop a tool in the engine bay, it'll always reach the ground.... Well, that *used* to be the case, but then I restored the undertray... Gentlemen, noting that humour is not always apparent in written words without facial context, might I request please that we try and keep the insults and the winding up down a little? Spoilsport
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Re: n/a owner tempted by vt
[Re: HiraethHuw]
#1522812
23/01/2015 14:51
23/01/2015 14:51
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pjdm
Unregistered
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pjdm
Unregistered
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Hahahaaaa no I said were I did my training, but you said not to bang on, so I mentioned yours Mines a big mac meal plzz. The plastic thing under my coupe is for catching nuts bolts coolant and oil isn't it? Don't the 16v have them for catching debris when the engine fails
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Re: n/a owner tempted by vt
[Re: one4seven]
#1522828
23/01/2015 15:53
23/01/2015 15:53
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pjdm
Unregistered
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pjdm
Unregistered
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If id have done that I never would have seen them again. =D
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