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Dodgy household wiring problem. Ideas?
#1462790
11/12/2013 12:38
11/12/2013 12:38
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,603 Corridor of Uncertainty
Jim_Clennell
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The wall between our dining room and living room has a single light switch controlling 4 40-watt uplighters and 2 sockets on the dining room side. On the living room side sit the sockets for our TV/Cable box/broadband router and my NAS server.
In recent weeks, every time someone switches the light in the dining room on or off or switches on something at the socket, it momentarily cuts the power to the sockets in the living room. Generally only the TV is affected, but sometimes it cuts the AV amp or broadband router and a couple of times the NAS server has been knocked out. On one occasion, I plugged the iron in in the dining room and it tripped the whole ring main. Most inconvenient.
As we rent the property, we called the agency and they sent round an electrician. He fiddled with the switch and then said that he had a similar TV and it was just that they were a bit sensitive. Unfortunately, I wasn't home when this occurred, or I might have been a little more insistent on a more satisfactory resolution to our problem. The next thing we have been advised to try it removing the bulbs from the dining room lights, presumably as low-energy bulbs draw a bit of power when starting up. I tried this (sceptically) and sure enought, it has the same effect with traditional bulbs or no bulbs at all.
I've reported this back to the agent and I'm hoping for a bit more effort from the electrician.
Anyone here have experience of this type of problem? There is no evidence of damp in the wall and the issue has definitely got worse in recent weeks. We haven't drilled into the wall or otherwise disrupted the cabling.
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Re: Dodgy household wiring problem. Ideas?
[Re: Jim_Clennell]
#1462798
11/12/2013 13:27
11/12/2013 13:27
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TimR
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TimR
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I plugged the iron in.... Here's your problem
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Re: Dodgy household wiring problem. Ideas?
[Re: Jim_Clennell]
#1462805
11/12/2013 14:16
11/12/2013 14:16
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,603 Corridor of Uncertainty
Jim_Clennell
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Very helpful, wink, thanks. Less helpful, Tim, but thanks anyway - any time you fancy ironing my shirts for me...!
The only connection between the (all 13A square pin) sockets and the light main is that the light switch seems to cause the TV / other appliances to suffer a momentary cut/dip in power. The iron could be the problem, yet seems to function fine when plugged in to any other socket. The fused spur sounds exactly right, as the wall was originally external, so I'm guessing they just took a spur from the house and chased the cabling in when they closed in the area that is now the dining room.
Would the RF interference cause the TV/other appliances to cut out? How does this explain the same effect caused by the socket (some 12 feet from the light switch, but just a couple of feet through the wall from the socket)?
I think you are right about the agency using an odd-job type. If they don't send a proper guy next time, I'll make a fuss.
Thanks again.
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Re: Dodgy household wiring problem. Ideas?
[Re: Jim_Clennell]
#1462826
11/12/2013 17:02
11/12/2013 17:02
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,783 In the coupe.
magooagain
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Maybe those sockets are wired of the lighting circuit or partially wired. Just an idea Jim as i know fudge all about sparks.
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Re: Dodgy household wiring problem. Ideas?
[Re: Jim_Clennell]
#1462859
11/12/2013 18:55
11/12/2013 18:55
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,650 Dark side of the Moon
H_R
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Something not right First things first change the light switch to a decent branded one MK or something similar If it continues then there is something wrong with the wiring (condition) or somebody has done some dodgy wiring There are so many things it could be, it's difficult to guess on here But definitely get somebody that knows what they are doing to check it out
Just read it again don't quite get your wiring! you shouldn't have a light switch controlling socket outlets they are not rated to do that normally 5 amps although you can get some that are 20 amps (is this what you mean) Or do you mean you have a switch spur that has sockets and lights fed from it and fused seperatly?
Hope you sort it!
Last edited by H_R; 11/12/2013 19:05.
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Re: Dodgy household wiring problem. Ideas?
[Re: wink]
#1462873
11/12/2013 19:38
11/12/2013 19:38
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,603 Corridor of Uncertainty
Jim_Clennell
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OK, have a clearer picture now. So basically plugging in appliances or using the light switch in the dining room causes momentary disruption to the living room (TV etc.)? That sounds as though maybe the mains voltage is dropping - brownout as referred to above. It all says there's something awry, so I would definitely insist on a qualified sparks from the lettings agency. Very bad news for them if your house caught fire anyway. This is exactly the situation, the light switch does not (intentionally) control any sockets and shouldn't share any wiring. I spoke to the electrician this afternoon, who still thinks it may be related to the TV or Virgin Cable box (which is - coincidentally, I think - also fritzed). I'm going to talk to the guy again after Virgin have given us another useless Samsung piece of junk. I tend to agree that it needs a little more urgency on the part of the sparks, but maybe the agency don't want to spend the cash.
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Re: Dodgy household wiring problem. Ideas?
[Re: Jim_Clennell]
#1462981
12/12/2013 11:24
12/12/2013 11:24
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,603 Corridor of Uncertainty
Jim_Clennell
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So, Virgin came round this morning and, as expected, replaced the Cable TV set-top box. This is our third in as many years - it seems as though Samsung have dumped a real dog on Virgin.
Anyway, MrsC has carried out some empirical testing and it seems as though the light switch no longer disrupts the TV. I have no idea why this should be, unless the Virgin box was so on the edge that it was cutting the signal at the slightest change in voltage. It doesn't explain the server cutting out, unless the Virgin box itself was causing some problems?
I'll have a look myself when I get home, but it looks like it might be fixed. Or have stopped happening, at least.
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Re: Dodgy household wiring problem. Ideas?
[Re: Jim_Clennell]
#1462993
12/12/2013 12:44
12/12/2013 12:44
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,483 Lightwater, Surrey
DaveG
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...until you plug the iron in...
1996 Portofino 20vt & 2000 Pearl White Plus 2008 Ferrari F430 & 2017 Fiat 124 Spider
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Re: Dodgy household wiring problem. Ideas?
[Re: Jim_Clennell]
#1463162
12/12/2013 23:58
12/12/2013 23:58
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RoyH
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RoyH
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Stop flicking the switch?
You need to get this looked at. Tell the letting agent you can smell burning....the sparkie will get sent round asafp.
Roy
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Re: Dodgy household wiring problem. Ideas?
[Re: ]
#1463192
13/12/2013 01:28
13/12/2013 01:28
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sparkyman
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sparkyman
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Really should get a spark round, before your landlord rents out the property he should have an electrical safety check, up here that's usualy an electrical installation condition report.
Without being there I could only guess, firstly have a wee smell around the affected electrical points, if you feel competent enough undo the face plates and look for signs of burning, not really up to you to find the fault though.
If the problem is getting worse and affecting both circuits but both circuits can be individually isolated by a breaker then it could be a shared neutral which is not making a proper contact which can cause over heating at that point.
How long does the tv go off for and is it staying off for longer than before, try plugging a standard lamp into the affected socket with a standard bulb, it would turn off right away as some tv's stay on for a bit.
Never rule out coincidence, it's a bugger.
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Re: Dodgy household wiring problem. Ideas?
[Re: Jim_Clennell]
#1463197
13/12/2013 02:57
13/12/2013 02:57
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 17,263 Auld Reekie
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The wall between our dining room and living room has a single light switch controlling 4 40-watt uplighters and 2 sockets on the dining room side. On the living room side sit the sockets for our TV/Cable box/broadband router and my NAS server.
Your first sentence I think is misleading Jim! As I understand it you have two sockets in the dining room on the partition wall (which used to be an external one), also a single light switch. In other words the dining room has been created recently by enclosing its space and it needed power and light. Your fuse box should have labelled fuses - if you turn off the circuit breaker for the lights try plugging in the iron and see if that still causes a problem. Now stop me at this point if I'm off the mark but it would be reasonable to assume that the lighting "feed" cable and the "power" feed cable (the fused spur) are routed along the same channel at some point. It's possible there is a short circuit in this area. One might think that the power points in the dining room are fed from the point immediately through the wall in the living room. You can check this if you unscrew the faceplate from the latter to see if it has 3 wires coming from each terminal at the back of it. (2 for the existing ring main and one spur). You clearly have a bad connection somewhere. What I would do first is (with a safe screwdriver - one that shows live wires on contact) remove the faceplates as Sparkers says one by one and gently tip the top towards you so that you can squint inside. Here are some things to look for: 1. a burnt-looking end to any wire 2. a loose wire in any terminal 3. where two wires enter the same terminal they can become loose if not tightened properly initially (shoddy installation) 4. defects in the sleeving which could cause two wires to come in contact with each other - check earth wires and their sleeving particularly. Start with the light switch. No way should this have been wired to the power supply, but to the lighting circuit. If you continue the search with the power points and all the above seem fine you may be looking at a short circuit between the power supply and the lighting supply. When all's said etc., the letting agency has no business to be taking money off clients when there's potential danger in the property. Sounds like the attempts to inspect so far have been pathetic.
BumbleBee carer
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Re: Dodgy household wiring problem. Ideas?
[Re: Jim_Clennell]
#1463209
13/12/2013 07:40
13/12/2013 07:40
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,674 Berlin
barnacle
Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
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Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
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Berlin
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There is theoretically no connection between them. There damned well should be... I bet Sparkyman sees it as well.
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Re: Dodgy household wiring problem. Ideas?
[Re: barnacle]
#1463220
13/12/2013 09:32
13/12/2013 09:32
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,603 Corridor of Uncertainty
Jim_Clennell
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There is theoretically no connection between them. There damned well should be... I bet Sparkyman sees it as well. OK, to the layman, there is no connection in their operation; the light switch does not control the sockets. Sheesh, a guy makes one grammatical error...
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Re: Dodgy household wiring problem. Ideas?
[Re: Jim_Clennell]
#1463221
13/12/2013 09:32
13/12/2013 09:32
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,650 Dark side of the Moon
H_R
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As said previously change your light switch to a decent one, crap switches can cause no end of issues. also are any of your lights low voltage i.e requiring a transformer these also can play havoc on circuit's Failing that as said above loose connections can be another major cause of stuff like this Be careful peeling off socket outlets and spurs etc. sometimes people have just tried to cram in far to many wires and they can end up coming loose or breaking if excessively bent! Best to leave that to an Electrician, unless you are confident enough! they can cuase a nightmare especially if they are cut very short! Its like anything armchair diagnosis is very difficult at times, so you do need to rely on a decent electrician being at the property to diagnose! Dont let them go until its sorted!
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Re: Dodgy household wiring problem. Ideas?
[Re: Jim_Clennell]
#1464080
17/12/2013 14:49
17/12/2013 14:49
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,603 Corridor of Uncertainty
Jim_Clennell
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This is the reply from a second electrician to the agent:
"I would not expect the dining room light to affect the TV in the back sitting room or to throw out the computer server ? as the lighting circuit is not connected to the socket circuit which supplies the TV, virgin box and the computer server which are plugged into the socket circuit, the only thing that might affect the TV digital signal from the lighting circuit is if the dining room light or switch is arcing which could cause interference to the signal of the TV or the wireless computer server if there is one ? but this is highly unlikely as the lighting circuit is a separate circuit from the socket circuit. I would probably have indicated that the virgin system is at fault the same as Ivan from the information supplied by the tenant, as I would presume that the TV system signal is also supplied via the virgin system along with the computer server which I would also presume is via the virgin system, as the tenant has a new virgin box was this installed and checked by virgin to see if it was working correctly or was it installed by the tenant if it was installed by the tenant it may be that the incoming system would need to be checked to see if the signal is at the virgin box ? if it is found that the virgin system is working correctly, i would recommend that the socket and lighting circuits are tested and checked to see if there is any fault causing this problem, but if there was an electrical fault as indicated I would have thought that the RCD would have tripped out on the circuit causing the problem, which the virgin system is plugged into, but as indicated by the tenant there has been no tripping of the socket or lighting circuits."
Well, the Virgin box was installed and checked by the Virgin technician. The computer server is wired, not wireless. And the sockets did trip when I plugged in the iron the other day... Ho hum.
The only other possibility is the Onkyo A/V amp, which is not the world's most reliable piece of kit and the TV and Virgin box are both plugged into it. However, generally, if anything upsets the amp, it cuts out for about 20 seconds while it resets, whereas this is simply a 2 second problem.
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