1 registered members (1 invisible),
362
guests, and 3
spiders. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums69
Topics113,860
Posts1,343,374
Members1,659
|
Most Online731 Jan 14th, 2020
|
|
|
Re: Jimmy Saville
[Re: AndrewR]
#1390607
09/11/2012 09:28
09/11/2012 09:28
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,144 Southampton, Hants
Roadking
Club member 1809
|
Club member 1809
Forum is my life
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,144
Southampton, Hants
|
I think it's more shocking that the shadow business secretary implied that Schofield is a serious broadcast journalist. I think she meant: "I think what Phillip Schofield did was foolish, stupid and grossly irresponsible - and frankly rather amateur.
"It's not what you expect of serious broadcast journalism. So what did you expect?"
In fairness, he did apologise: Mr Schofield later apologised if the names on the card could be seen by viewers because of a "misjudged camera angle". So it was all the cameraman's fault
"RK's way seems the most sensible to me". ali_hire 16 Dec 2010
|
|
|
Re: Jimmy Saville
[Re: Mark_S]
#1390609
09/11/2012 09:38
09/11/2012 09:38
|
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 702 Cornwall
jasgol
Enjoying the ride
|
Enjoying the ride
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 702
Cornwall
|
hoi polloi out there seems to associate paedophilia with homosexuality and, as always, can't separate the concept of 'someone who is X did Y' from 'all X do Y'.
My guess would be that the statistics might back up the hoi polloi assumption in the case of offences against young boys - I can't imagine many women or straight men would be involved. Obviouisly in offences against girls the opposite would be expected. So am I right in thinking that you associate paedophilia with homosexuality then?
Horsing around's a serious business.
|
|
|
Re: Jimmy Saville
[Re: jasgol]
#1390611
09/11/2012 09:50
09/11/2012 09:50
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,144 Southampton, Hants
Roadking
Club member 1809
|
Club member 1809
Forum is my life
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,144
Southampton, Hants
|
So am I right in thinking that you associate paedophilia with homosexuality then? I think he meant that a homosexual man would have sex with a boy, a hetero man with a girl, which seems to have some logic. Given that to me there is no logic in being attracted to a child Cameron's response to Schofield which seems to have upset everyone was to state the dangers of assuming all paedos are homosexual. Given he appears to have upset everyone with that statement it would appear the common belief is that they are.
"RK's way seems the most sensible to me". ali_hire 16 Dec 2010
|
|
|
Re: Jimmy Saville
[Re: jasgol]
#1390616
09/11/2012 10:10
09/11/2012 10:10
|
Enforcer
Unregistered
|
Enforcer
Unregistered
|
hoi polloi out there seems to associate paedophilia with homosexuality and, as always, can't separate the concept of 'someone who is X did Y' from 'all X do Y'.
My guess would be that the statistics might back up the hoi polloi assumption in the case of offences against young boys - I can't imagine many women or straight men would be involved. Obviouisly in offences against girls the opposite would be expected. So am I right in thinking that you associate paedophilia with homosexuality then? What he actually meant was that in general most sex offences with boys would have been perpetrated by gay men. What he didn't mean was that most gay men would have perpetrated sex offences with boys.
Last edited by Enforcer; 09/11/2012 10:11.
|
|
|
Re: Jimmy Saville
[Re: ]
#1390621
09/11/2012 10:40
09/11/2012 10:40
|
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,674 Berlin
barnacle
Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
|
Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
Forum Demigod
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,674
Berlin
|
|
|
|
Re: Jimmy Saville
[Re: ]
#1390635
09/11/2012 11:52
09/11/2012 11:52
|
FreakinFreak
Unregistered
|
FreakinFreak
Unregistered
|
From what I saw Schofield was saying here's a list of tories who are suspected of child sexual abuse. It was Cameron, trying to deflect the issue, who brought up the 'is it because they is gay?' angle.
What isn't being said, apart from one sentence in an interview with Stephen Messham, is that its all about the bloody freemasons.
Last edited by FreakinFreak; 09/11/2012 11:54. Reason: why can't I say c o z when I want - sometimes I don't want to say 'because'. Just because.
|
|
|
Re: Jimmy Saville
[Re: ]
#1390638
09/11/2012 12:13
09/11/2012 12:13
|
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 702 Cornwall
jasgol
Enjoying the ride
|
Enjoying the ride
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 702
Cornwall
|
^ at last, the voice of reason.
Horsing around's a serious business.
|
|
|
Re: Jimmy Saville
[Re: Roadking]
#1390641
09/11/2012 12:15
09/11/2012 12:15
|
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,546 Northumberland
AndrewR
I AM a Coop
|
I AM a Coop
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,546
Northumberland
|
Given that to me there is no logic in being attracted to a child There's no logic in any attraction - nobody makes a conscious decision as to what age, gender, size or fetish is going to attract them.
Dear monos, a secret truth.
|
|
|
Re: Jimmy Saville
[Re: AndrewR]
#1390647
09/11/2012 12:47
09/11/2012 12:47
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,144 Southampton, Hants
Roadking
Club member 1809
|
Club member 1809
Forum is my life
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,144
Southampton, Hants
|
There's no logic in any attraction - nobody makes a conscious decision as to what age, gender, size or fetish is going to attract them. Absolutely, I was just referring to the fact that my previous statement shouldn't be read as meaning I thought that there was any logic to paedophilia. Regardless of the drive, paedophilia is deviant behaviour. In my eyes inexcusable, regardless of sexual orientation. Other behaviours I also consider to be distasteful are not in the same league. If you wish to have a relationship with your dog/mum/dead girlfriend/best mate that's up to you, just not my bag. Bold to emphasise that this is my opinion, others are entitled to a relationship with their dog/mum/dead girlfriend/best mate. Although remember no matter how enjoyable you may find any of these, only the last option is legal
"RK's way seems the most sensible to me". ali_hire 16 Dec 2010
|
|
|
Re: Jimmy Saville
[Re: ]
#1390648
09/11/2012 12:48
09/11/2012 12:48
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,783 In the coupe.
magooagain
Club Member 259
|
Club Member 259
Forum is my life
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,783
In the coupe.
|
I heard or read something many years ago,that one of the reason's men are attracted to beautifull women is that they look most child like !!
Strange i know.
Last edited by magooagain; 09/11/2012 12:49.
|
|
|
Re: Jimmy Saville
[Re: magooagain]
#1390652
09/11/2012 13:35
09/11/2012 13:35
|
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,833 Haslemere, Surrey
Mark_S
Forum is my job
|
Forum is my job
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,833
Haslemere, Surrey
|
I heard or read something many years ago,that one of the reason's men are attracted to beautifull women is that they look most child like !!
Strange i know. Or they look like thier mum, apparently
997 C4S
|
|
|
Re: Jimmy Saville
[Re: ]
#1390653
09/11/2012 13:36
09/11/2012 13:36
|
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,833 Haslemere, Surrey
Mark_S
Forum is my job
|
Forum is my job
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,833
Haslemere, Surrey
|
hoi polloi out there seems to associate paedophilia with homosexuality and, as always, can't separate the concept of 'someone who is X did Y' from 'all X do Y'.
My guess would be that the statistics might back up the hoi polloi assumption in the case of offences against young boys - I can't imagine many women or straight men would be involved. Obviouisly in offences against girls the opposite would be expected. So am I right in thinking that you associate paedophilia with homosexuality then? What he actually meant was that in general most sex offences with boys would have been perpetrated by gay men. What he didn't mean was that most gay men would have perpetrated sex offences with boys. Yes, sorry if I was not clear on that
997 C4S
|
|
|
Re: Jimmy Saville
[Re: barnacle]
#1390788
10/11/2012 06:20
10/11/2012 06:20
|
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,086 South Cambs
Barmybob
Hon Club Member: 003
|
Hon Club Member: 003
Je suis un Coupé
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,086
South Cambs
|
while I do not condone the behaviour alleged to Savile (and on the couple of occasions I met him I disliked him intensely) there is a difference between 'I was abused' and 'I was a star-struck kid who actively sought out both the groups of the time and the DJs who played their music'. And I wonder how many people have moved from one group to the other... There is a considerable difference between seeking, grooming and abusing persons you know to be under the age of sexual consent, and having sex with someone who is under the age of consent. Both are crimes but one is significantly more intentional than the other, much like the difference between murder and manslaughter I guess. It seems clear that some famous people have had sexual contact with some of those who were star struck, it also seems clear that some of those people were under the legal age of consent. It is absolutely the responsibility of an adult to not seek to take advantage of young people and to ensure that persons they seek to have any sexual contact with are of legal age. We will probably never truly know if any of these persons making allegations were asked their age, and if they were, then told the truth. Young folk often inflate their ages in order to get what they want. I was drinking in Pubs well before I was 18. I never smoked but many of my friends were, and well before they were 16. Many girls and boys also seek to “Attain adulthood” well before they are 16 too, this is nothing new. From my last year at School I worked evenings as a DJ with a mobile disco and also in two clubs in the town with the over 18 age restriction. I would regularly see girls who I knew were several years younger than me in the clubs seeking men. Many of them were most successful in their regular endeavours. One lesson you would have thought we would have learned throughout all this would to not be thrusting young girls into similar situations. This could start by not pandering to the idolisation of POP stars. Just this week though I saw the Surprise programme on ITV. It gave two young schoolgirls the opportunity to meet their POP idols. Both girls declared which one of the hunky fellows they “Liked the most” and he was immediately requested to sit between the two girls on the sofa. What do the TV people think it is these young girls would like from their idol, far more than just sitting I suspect
Gone Audi mad!
|
|
|
Re: Jimmy Saville
[Re: ]
#1390818
10/11/2012 10:45
10/11/2012 10:45
|
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,674 Berlin
barnacle
Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
|
Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
Forum Demigod
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,674
Berlin
|
100% agreement, Bob. As you say, it is the adult on the occasion whose responsibility it is to ensure that their acts are legal - but as you also say - how many people of *either* sex are actively engaged in activities not legal for their age? If I walk down to half the pubs in town I'll guarantee that many of the youngsters there are under age (which of course is different for different activities - go figure) and without knowing them personally how might one be expected to know their true age? Again - this is not condoning abuse. It's hard to see, though, how someone deliberately pretending to be older than they are, and instigating a relationship which is strictly illegal, *is* abuse (even though the law has to define some limit). I think the definition probably needs to include 'who is the controlling party?' somewhere. I suspect that in the case of Savile and others like him, the factor in his/their behaviour was not 'she's under age, woohoo!' but more likely 'she will do what I tell her to.' As I said: I was around Television Centre at the time. I was certainly aware of the rumours - but to me that was all they were. Even in my late teens and early twenties I was uncomfortable with these kids, mostly girls, and I avoided them and the places they might be found. So, I have no direct experience. Nonetheless it still strikes me that there's the difference between 'seeking out' and 'being controlled' - and one question which hasn't been asked: how many of those people now complaining have moved, in their minds, from the first group to the second in the intervening years? How many are remembering memories of memories of memories? Forty years is a long time... Anyone remember the Orkney child abuse events in the early nineties? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/5272092.stm ? We should learn from that and not leap to conclusions.
|
|
|
Re: Jimmy Saville
[Re: barnacle]
#1390826
10/11/2012 11:09
10/11/2012 11:09
|
Enforcer
Unregistered
|
Enforcer
Unregistered
|
and one question which hasn't been asked: how many of those people now complaining have moved, in their minds, from the first group to the second in the intervening years? How many are remembering memories of memories of memories? Forty years is a long time...
You've been dipping into your "Essay concerning Human Understanding", by John Locke, again, haven't you. I told you - it is for Christmas day!
|
|
|
Re: Jimmy Saville
[Re: Brewster]
#1391057
11/11/2012 17:38
11/11/2012 17:38
|
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,086 South Cambs
Barmybob
Hon Club Member: 003
|
Hon Club Member: 003
Je suis un Coupé
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,086
South Cambs
|
Did he give you a Crinkly Bottom too?
Gone Audi mad!
|
|
|
Re: Jimmy Saville
[Re: Barmybob]
#1391066
11/11/2012 18:07
11/11/2012 18:07
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,748 Pistonheads
Brewster
Forum is my life
|
Forum is my life
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,748
Pistonheads
|
Did he give you a Crinkly Bottom too?
He was too sly on his own turf. It was nearer Dangly End.
|
|
|
Re: Jimmy Saville
[Re: ]
#1391100
11/11/2012 21:47
11/11/2012 21:47
|
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 702 Cornwall
jasgol
Enjoying the ride
|
Enjoying the ride
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 702
Cornwall
|
Apparently Savile's career really took off in 1967 when, backstage at Top of the Pops, he introduced Cream to the Small Faces.
Horsing around's a serious business.
|
|
|
Re: Jimmy Saville
[Re: ]
#1391207
12/11/2012 13:08
12/11/2012 13:08
|
Turbo_Verde
Unregistered
|
Turbo_Verde
Unregistered
|
Mod Hat On: Please try to keep this on topic, and try to keep the jokes to a reasonably PG rating, some have come quite close to the line. Don't want people stepping over that line and getting the thread locked or deleted.
Thanks
|
|
|
Re: Jimmy Saville
[Re: ]
#1391270
12/11/2012 17:15
12/11/2012 17:15
|
Enforcer
Unregistered
|
Enforcer
Unregistered
|
Mod Hat On: Please try to keep this on topic, and try to keep the jokes to a reasonably PG rating, some have come quite close to the line. Don't want people stepping over that line and getting the thread locked or deleted.
Thanks
To be fair, though, I think we are are only talking about minor aberrations.
|
|
|
Re: Jimmy Saville
[Re: ]
#1391285
12/11/2012 18:18
12/11/2012 18:18
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,748 Pistonheads
Brewster
Forum is my life
|
Forum is my life
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,748
Pistonheads
|
To be fair, though, I think we are are only talking about minor aberrations. Oh, bravo. Well played, sir.
|
|
|
Re: Jimmy Saville
[Re: ]
#1391951
15/11/2012 17:11
15/11/2012 17:11
|
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,603 Corridor of Uncertainty
Jim_Clennell
Forum veteran
|
Forum veteran
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,603
Corridor of Uncertainty
|
With the news that the police have now arrested Dave Lee Travis can anyone here think of a male Radio DJ from that era who wasn't creepy? Maybe I should stress that I'm saying creepy in a vaguely uncomfortable sense. Obviously we would never state or imply that anyone had done anything nasty in an abuse of children/trust kind of way... [Lawyers: Have I covered my arse. So to speak...?]
Last edited by Jim_Clennell; 15/11/2012 17:14. Reason: allegedness...
|
|
|
Re: Jimmy Saville
[Re: Jim_Clennell]
#1391953
15/11/2012 17:19
15/11/2012 17:19
|
tim42
Unregistered
|
tim42
Unregistered
|
Bloody hell, DLT, the hairy monster. Used to be the best show on the radio.... Oh dear
|
|
|
Re: Jimmy Saville
[Re: ]
#1391963
15/11/2012 18:13
15/11/2012 18:13
|
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,336 Selby
Mansilla
My job on the forum
|
My job on the forum
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,336
Selby
|
While we are going around arresting tedious DJ's, can someone arrange for a knock on the door at Steve Wright's house? Surely producing the same show, every day, for endless decades is a crime against the nations ears?
I will have to write to my Police and Crime Commissioner if not.
1. Think of something witty and urbane 2. Imagine it written here
|
|
|
|