Right, i've finally seen one I like but unfortunately I haven't sold my car yet so i'm hoping it doesn't sell before mine does.

Anyway, i'm really concerned.

I know you buy a car to use it and to enjoy it. And not as an investment.

Nevertheless, there has to be a certain level of sensible buying behind it ...

The car i've seen is a 2001 X-plate from a private seller with side airbags etc, Moon Grey. (Not my fave colour by any means, but otherwise it's just right).

The problem is, I can get it for a minimum of £7800. (It's fully serviced and on 46000 miles).

I don't mind paying that, if that's what it's worth. But i've looked in What Car's buyer's guide and Parkers, and the highest price it quotes is £5850.

I can see myself buying it, and then selling it a couple of years from now (as is about normal for me and many others) and finding that I can only get about 4 grand for it.

This would be a hell of a hit to take, and I think it'll ultimately be my fault for buying a car that was so #overpriced' in the first place. I always buy carefully, and the most I ever lose over a couple of years is £1000-2000.

Take the example of part-ex'ing it, even the day after buying it. Pay £7800, and then take it to a dealer ... he'll offer you £3500 for it. That has to say something. Dealers never say, "oh there's a market for them so i'll ignore the book", they simply get their copy of Glasses out and screw you into the ground, ripping your heart out at the same time.

And I have to stress again, I have the money, and i'm happy to spend it. IF i'm not being ripped off. (Which I honestly think we might all be)!

Atthe end of the day, it's a car, and we've all got families to support and bills to pay. I know there are more 'safe' buys out there, but surely it's possible to buy the Fiat and only lose a normal amount of money over a couple of years, rather than thousands overnight!

Can we all have the final discussion on this matter ... what is going on with the asking prices of these cars?

Well, I have a 2000/X Moon Grey Plus (on an X plate when the private plate is removed) with 70k, rebuilt engine, and I wouldn't be looking at letting that go for much less than £8k if I was selling. People ARE paying these prices, regardless of what the trade says - someone on here recently bought something in the same bracket, I'm sure.

I think with most relatively young cars, £1.5 - 2k depreciation a year is to be expected. The older and cheaper the car the lower the amount of depreciation will be, but then the maintenance costs will prolly be higher.

And the longer you keep the thing the lower the annual depreciation will be, averaged out.

There are a lot of long term owners on here and I expect many of us would say that at the end of the day it's a car, bang for bucks and all that. It won't be as good an investment as, say, an ISA; it might not even be as good an investment as standing in the street ripping up £20's.

But it'll be a little bit more exciting than either I hope

Is it a plus or 'just' a late 20VT?
Some people look specifically for a plus or LE model, which may help with resale values.

The value is also going to depend on whether the cars start becoming more saught after which is a distinct possibility - future classic and all that. If more magazines start writing about what a good value second hand sports car they are, that'll help lessen the depreciation.

OR you could do a lot of waiting and buy one dirt cheap off a dealer, like I did. As you say heinzeman, "Dealers never say, "oh there's a market for them so i'll ignore the book", they simply get their copy of Glasses out and screw you into the ground, ripping your heart out at the same time."

I bought my W Reg Turbo for £4,500 (probably needs £500 spending on it to make it mint). The dealer had already made his cut so he must have paid less than £3500 to the previous owner

But those cars don't hang around. That car was sold the day it was made available and I got it because my dad knew the dealer so had first refusal

Like you, I always buy my cars right and have only ever sold one car for less than I paid for it. I've just sold my 20V N/A for £600 more than I paid for it 15 months ago. I spent £1000 over that 15 months so I lost £400 really but then again, it's only cost me £400 on consumables + petrol money over a whole year. Money that you'd have to spend on any car

If you're trying to be prudent, get a 20VT(6) as they're better value for money in my opinion. Yes, I'd rather have a Plus but I can't afford one

No offence and i dont mean to wish you bad luck but if you buy it and it gets demolished what you going to get for it??? Its pointless planning it, you will be creating depreciation formula's next!!!

People who come up with these bizare buying plans honestly do annoy me!

If the car is worth 7k to you go buy it, not saying anyone else would buy it for that!

Are you putting risk factor into your calcualtion of depreciation and 3 year selling plan??? Do you make alowance for the engine to pop, gearbox or turbo to bang????

No offence again, but i have similar people coming to look at my cars, now are people not capable of deciding if the car in its prime condition is worth the price before they travel to view. Its very annoying when some clown stands there with a buyers guide and a book to tell me what the car is worth!

I sell one hell of alot of 16v's, now book on them is nothing, but 1800 buys a dog as per book price, 3500+ buys a proper coupe, at double book, but people will pay for a proper one!! Remeber book's are written with alot of tolerance to condition, they expect at that age dents chips etc but not many buyers are willing to accept.

Anything is only worth what someone wants to pay for it!

I'd suggest you go buy a BMW or Mercedes, may fit your style of purchase better!

As for being ripped off thats a stupid comment, if you want to pay it, are you being forced or had??? You can see the price, how can that be ripping you off???? Its your option to call and view and buy at that price!

No offence again but i have 2 coupe's on the trader at the mo in the wolves area, please dont call me!!!!!

Goodluck!

I agree...any car is only worth what someone is prepared to pay for it...if it's not worth that to you, don't buy Cars depreciate fact, absolute amount wise a coupe will depreciate less as the starting price is lower...As carlt says, if you want a reliable car that will depreciate less buy a Golf or a Honda - a Jazz retains 70% of value after 3 years apparently.

Deep breaths Carlt.

(again)

carlt,

firstly, I resent that you see my post as evidence of a 'bizaar buying plan'; it's far from it. It's just an innocent suggestion creating an open forum.

secondly, yes I have made allowances for the engine to 'pop'. It'd be stupid not to, right?


Now look, this is what I said:

Quote:

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...I know you buy a car to use it and to enjoy it. And not as an investment.

...Nevertheless, there has to be a certain level of sensible buying behind it ...

...I don't mind paying that, if that's what it's worth.

...Pay £7800, and then take it to a dealer ... he'll offer you £3500 for it. That has to say something.

...IF i'm not being ripped off. (Which I honestly think we might all be)!

---

guys ... have a proper read of my thread. I'm not a cheap-skate, and I understand that sometimes the going-rate for a car is above the 'book price'.

What I needed was assurance that there is a market (so that if I wanted to sell it a day later, hyperthetically, it would be worth what I paid for it, and not three grand less as i'd been mugged).

That is important, because it's sensible.

I've been given that assurance from the members who understood my thread.

The reason I asked at all, is because i've been looking for months and as far as I can see, only one or two Plus's have sold. (both cheaper than the average 8k asking prices incidently).

That for me, was cause for concern, as it looked like if I was forced to sell mine (stress 'forced'; it's not my intention) i'd be stuck with it. And therefore i'd have been ripped off.

As if i'd paid only 6k, i'd get 6 back!

See the logic there?

I don't want to be the only bugger out there who buys one at top dollar. Just because they're advertised at a given price, it doesn't follow that they're selling.

I've worked out the answer to this myself now anyway.
It is ok to buy one at around the asking prices, because there will be a market if I was forced to sell. It will just be a very very slow sale.

Good enough for me. As long as there's a sale, we're quids in. The family and the bills come first, and if we're in dire straits (it can happen to anyone, i'm not at all poor) it would be unforgivable if I had tied up 8 grand in a car worth 5.

Sensible? Yes.

Too sensible for some of you on this forum? Quite possibly.




I'll buy the car regardless. As I said, a slow sale, is still a sale. I just wouldn't take it to a dealer to have it laughed at.

Quote:

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i'd be stuck with it. And therefore i'd have been ripped off.

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No you chose to pay 7k and at the moment your selling no one else does! Thats not being ripped off.

Your logic i think is bizare. Having owned both currently and previously more coupe's than 99% of the population, coupe's are not an investment, nor have any kind of logic.

Quote:

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The reason I asked at all, is because i've been looking for months and as far as I can see, only one or two Plus's have sold

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Wrong again, ive sold one plus, one 20vt6 and several decent top price 20vt's in the last few months. There is a strong market for the right car. Just depends what world the buyer is from.

I'd throw your money in a house!

I think, in short, all heinzman is saying is that he doesn't want to buy a car that's going to depreciate so much that he'll be stressing over having bought it in the first place

I can empathise with that. The Plus and LE Coupes are very appealing but if I ever bought one for the going rate it'd spoil my enjoyment of the car to be worrying about the money side of things. Which is precisely why I bought my car at the price I did

I suggest you buy the car you want at the price you're happy with

Found this on ebay, a good honest write up and a sensible price.

ebay 20vt LE

I personally can't see why your holding out for plus. IMHO they are overpriced.
There is so many Late 20VT Coupe for sale you can take your pick. Save yourself 2 grand and use it for mods instead

looks like dukes le on ebay

If he wants a Plus, let him get a Plus. I only looked for them when I was buying (and I paid a shedload more than £7k!).

I bought mine just over 12 months ago and "i paid a shedload more than £7k" too

No regrets

There was a cracking plus for 6k black 50k miles there is a blue one and a red one here.
plus's

I reckon heinzman is a bs

bs? humour me ...

The first '99 sprint blue (6) looks like a well maintained coupe, it has low mileage and I reckon you could knock him down to £4,700.

I like the red one on the second page.

Broke student?

back stabber?

bum stuffer?!

I don't, I think he is for real. But heinzeman, Jeez, loosen up! It's just a car at the end of the day (there I said it) Just pay what you are willing to pay and enjoy instead of acting as if lives are at stake!!
I bid on mine off ebay when drunk ( ) and it's been the best investment ever. But that's probably more to do with this forum than the car.

Here is a near plus plus 4 heinzman

Dont get me wrong i would love nothing more than to see you get a coop, just get a feckin move on

Heinzman,

From your posts you are obviously a worrier and a perfectionist so maybe the Coupe is just not for you!
Your current car has been up for sale for a long time so I sense that you paid top dollar for it and are now trying to minimise losses. Why even put yourself in a similar position with a Coupe when it obviously bothers you so much.
At the current time there seem to be a lot of later model 20VT for sale and the market value has dropped from what it was 12 months ago. However, many 20Vt are getting older and in 1 to 2 years time the market value (private) of any good 20Vt left could significantly increase.
If you just want a daily driver then dont waste your money on a Coupe, buy a supermini. If you want some fun and a 'hobby' then buy a Coupe, so what if you lose £1K to £2K a year, no-one bats an eyelid about spending this on other hobbies, beer or fags.
On another note, I have a good friend who was exactly like yourself and he 'planned' his Coupe purchase for 2 years boring myself and his other friends with calculation after calculation. Finally he bought one and never looked back - all his calcs went to ratshit but he loves it to bits.
Coupe ownership is great but there is a certain level of paranoia associated with it even if you buy the best.
As they say - shit or get off the pan!!

Some good points here, particularly Ponsonby's above. You buy one of these things with your heart not your head.

I like the smoking 'n drinking analogy above. Its a hobby thing for many of us and shouldn't cost more than a hundred fags and twenty pints a day

Buy a Golf diesel, it's more suitable .

You don't buy a Fiat Coupe with your head, it a heart and soul thing .

It's like being in love, sometimes the slaps and stingers are the attraction, it's worth it for a car with "soul".

The Fiat Coupe sort of "treats us mean and keeps us keen" but the returns in "fun" are worth it .

Buy a Golf diesel.......